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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Jun 27, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    FinoCJ likes this.
  2. Jun 27, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    You're running a short waterpump setup, and have the matching short crank pulley, but it looks like your power steering bracket is set up for a long water pump. There are also different p/s pulleys that are flatter or more dished depending on application. If you have the p/s pulley install/removal tool, you have a lot of "adjustment" with the press-on pulleys.
    I ended up with an aftermarket alloy p/s pulley on an AMC 360 that went into my LR Defender project. I couldn't find any combination of stock pulleys to line up.
    -Donny
     
  3. Jun 27, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I think they expect you to clamp it firmly for in and out at the dashboard. In that case the lower bracket just locates the hole.

    To constrain all your degrees of freedom, you need locate the top, locate the bottom, and constrain in and out movement at one or the other brackets but not both.
     
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  4. Jun 28, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    But then we are back to which of the upper brackets control the in-out movement, as most of those look to just be various clamps to the bottom of the dash...I think I will call Speedway and see what they say about it all...still haven't figure out how to best make the steering shaft work

    Been struggling with cross-member and engine mount...taking a break for a few days...I did sell the 283 block and few parts so that helps, but I still have a bunch of little pieces sitting around cluttering stuff. Think I need to do some maintenance etc on the DD Tacoma that I sort of pushed off thinking it might get sold, and refresh from the Willys. We are still interested to replace the Tacoma with a newer full-size (jen really liked the F150 we checked out), but used truck prices are brutal, and I absolutely have loved my Tacoma for 10 years, so we'll keep our eye out for a good deal on a full-size, but for now, expecting to drive the tacoma for another year or more. Not sure how tedious the front coil-overs will be to change out the shocks (think I found a decent set of the adjustable bilstein struts on CL for the right price), and not looking forward to the serpentine belt - seemed like the last time I did that one I had to remove way more of the front end than one should! Replacement of the cracked windshield is getting scheduled, and maybe some new headlight bulbs, along with the usual fluid changes for everything.
     
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  5. Jun 28, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    This is the style I use on the floor mostly, but can also be used on the column as it pivots. Speedway Universal Steering Column Mount, 2 Inch - just pick a size.

    I'll be using it on the '63 build now, and that's also what I used on Jim's build when I put the Saginaw in his 3B for him.
     
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  6. Jun 28, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    so does it clamp tight enough to hold it solidly and keep the column from sliding up and down? Guess that is my biggest concern with the various mounts. At one point I was thinking a shaft collar around the column just above the lower mount and just below the upper mount could ensure it stays in place...but that might be overkill, and if a shaft collar can clamp that tightly and beyond, then these other clamps are probably more than enough.
     
  7. Jun 29, 2021
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    I think you're over-thinking this steering column. The one on my 5 has the mount on the floor, and the factory mount at the bottom of the dash, thats it. It works just fine.
    I think if you get a floor mount, either home brewed or aftermarket, and use the stock Willys dash mount you'll be good to go.
     
  8. Jun 29, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    And if I didn't overthink it, I wouldn't be me...my least weakness is thinking, not fabricating or making something work...Most of the time, I can barely make direct bolt on replacement stuff work. But as a reflection of my thinking, last night when working on the tacoma before dinner, I got the truck back to driving condition and had planned to be done for the night. But after dinner, I was feeling a bit antsy and forgot why I stopped where I did, was like, well I'll just pull a few parts in prep for replacement tomorrow....This morning I remembered why I shouldn't have done that - my wife had an early work morning today (she usually works afternoons) and took her car - the only driveable one around here...now its going to be a nice bike ride to the parts store to pick up what I need. Is that overthinking....or maybe just not thinking...its a beautiful day at least for a bike ride....and I just remembered I need a backpack or something to bring the parts home on the bike.
     
  9. Jun 30, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    It does great - I have even used them a bit over sized and used some 'good' tape to wrap the column with - only the top... You really only need the one a the top and bottom to hold the column in place. Think about an impact accident too. You don't want the column and shaft to impale you - just hold firm for the daily usage it needs.

    As long as the damn thing does not flop side to side it will turn circles. The up and down angle is for 'comfort' and to make sure things don't bind up. Firm top and bottom mounts are good to go. Too hard and they can be dangerous IMOP. Got to walk that fine line :)
     
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  10. Jun 30, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    What kind of fore-aft inclination are we looking for on the engine mount/placement...I think Novak suggests between 3-5 degrees rearward tilt...I am sitting about 3 degrees and am starting to run out of clearance on the underside/floorpan, and possibly under the hood. I do have a 1/4" spacer between the cross-member and the 465/18 combo that could be removed and would drop the back end a bit and provide more clearance. But I am also balancing that with trying to keep the massive 465 tucked-up under there as tight as reasonable (and without cutting any more floorpan)....I am kind of feeling like this might be the 'sweet spot' if 3 degrees seems reasonable.
    [​IMG]
     
    colojeepguy likes this.
  11. Jun 30, 2021
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Newark
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    3 degrees has worked for me in the past, Ron
     
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  12. Jun 30, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 WRPD855 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    It'll work. This is one of those topics that makes me:confused:

    Because once you sit in it, add fuel, accelerate, add a trailer.... etc it changes.

    Have you heard anyone have issues with there carb when the plow is raised but be fine when the plow is on the ground? They aren't that sensitive.
     
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  13. Jun 30, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Trying to work on the cross-member mount - thought it might be easier to modify and re-use the original cross-member, especially as its set up well to work with the D18 torque mount/snubber. What I need to figure out is the isolator mount under the transmission - well actually its going to be the adapter plate between the sm465 and D18 - its pre-drilled with threaded mount holes set-up for the isolator I have. But I need to figure out the bottom mount to the cross-member. As the sm465 is so big, I cannot get it high enough to mount on top of flat cross-member with the 2" thick isolator. So I was thinking I could notch out a small piece of the cross-member so the isolator could mount along the bottom edge.
    [​IMG]

    So what is the best way to notch the cross-member without weakening it too much....and how much additional clearance around the rubber isolator is needed (or how much relative movement can I expect between the drivetrain and the crossmember? I was thinking of cutting something out like this:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the cross-member from the side...I would only be notching out a section along the rear most channel - the front two channels would be untouched and hopefully provide enough strength.
    [​IMG]

    In the above pic, the isolator would sit in this area:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jun 30, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I am not sure why its an issue - that's why I am asking - but I always assumed it was more drivetrain alignment than carb as they suggest the same for EFI vehicles, as the reference I think is in relation to the vehicle, not necessarily the ground?
     
  15. Jun 30, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 WRPD855 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    My point is just that the angle changes with loading. The engine relative to level ground and relative to the axle will change. We have the advantage of a rear output drop on the d18. Get the engine where it needs to be and use axle shims to get the rear driveline happy.

    In college I was told many times that the ideal aircraft is a compromise and you will sacrifice one measure of performance for another.

    The instructions will yield the best performance. Think of a drag truck going down the track trying to get every last % efficiency.

    In the Jeep I'm just getting ice cream and beer so it's ok for my engine to be a little sideways and it's tilted wherever it is now. I did measure it once and got it just so but that caused other issues. Knowing you want to tow the cj with the wagon and do more highway driving than I do in my cj it is good to check I'm just not the best advice round here.:twist:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
  16. Jun 30, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash The pride of Cucamonga 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    I’d be afraid to cut the Channel at all without adding something back to make up the lost strength.
     
  17. Jun 30, 2021
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet 2020 Sponsor

    Biloxi, Mississippi
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    Can't add a piece of angle or plate to the existing cross member and drill a couple holes?
     
  18. Jul 1, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Not that I can figure out...but maybe some fresh eyes might see something
     
  19. Jul 1, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Going back to the engine placement...it seems I was mistaken on what I was trying to do with measuring the engine angle on the carb base. Most sbc intakes have a few degrees of wedge built in and that the carb base will sit near level.....In other words, if there is 3 degrees built into the intake, and I have added an additional 3 degrees as shown by the inclinometer, then the crank/transmission will be at 6 - so I want to go measure that to verify. Also, I need to check the pinon angle as it seems more important to match the transmission angle to the pinon angle, and to maintain 'offset' so they are parallel but not inline....Although its easy enough to shim the rear axle, it may be easiest to just match the pinon angle assuming its reasonable and near the expected 3 degrees. The two attached pdf's in this link are quite helpful with understanding driveline angles....
    Education Zone: Power Train Set Up - Inland Empire Driveline Service

    The one advantage of this redo, with the engine possibly rotating a few degrees nose down to get it more level, the back end will rotate up maybe helping create some space between the cross-member and trans to fit the mount in better....but it can only go up so much due to floorpan interference, and I cannot drop the engine much due to starter/driveshaft issues....Sometimes I hate this project....
     
  20. Jul 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    So am I just asking for trouble with this cross-member transmission mount set-up? I notched out a section of the cross-member to allow the isolator bushing to slide through...will then need to weld a bottom flat onto the cross-member for the bottom of the isolator to mount to, and would probably 'close-in' the sides as well with the idea to reconstruct some of the strength. Also may have to the upper corners out at an angle to provide a bit more clearance, otherwise think the bolt heads on the bottom of the adapter will contact the cross-member when it torques....But I am also worried about the clearance along the front and sides of the isolator bushing, and I don't want to cut the next rib in the cross-member as i think it will get really weak then.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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