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New EFI Option - Looks Like 3 Good Players Now

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Warloch, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Jan 4, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    For what it's worth, the 231 odd-fire uses the large bore 2GC while the 225 uses the small bore. At least my 1977 231 odd fire has the large bore carb. I think that is the case for all of the 231 manifolds.

    I'm curious why the Holley won't work on an odd fire. It's not like the throttle body injection is SEFI where it's timing the injectors with the individual valve openings. I wonder if the uneven pulses for the tach signal are a problem? If so, an independent crank trigger of some sort might be a solution.
     
  2. Jan 5, 2020
    oddfirejeeper

    oddfirejeeper Active Member

    Hamilton, MI
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    I'm curious why it wont work either? I mean it just needs a tach signal right? My tach does not have an oddfire option, it is just 4, 6 and 8 cylinder and works just fine. The video of the efi meets old jeep is a 231 in a jeepster unless it is an even fire 231
     
  3. Jan 5, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    I’m sure the uneven pulse is what there concerned with.
     
  4. Jan 5, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Can’t find that video, can you put up a link. All the videos I found were for 258 bbd efi kits.
     
  5. Jan 5, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    Yeah, then why not use a crank trigger wheel for RPM signal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  6. Jan 5, 2020
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Go for it. I like the idea of trying to use a crank trigger.
     
  7. Jan 5, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    I spoke to Holley a while back and they seems confident that BBD system could be used on a Fhead too, assuming the whole setup bolted up or could be adapted.
     
    65CJ5 SRD likes this.
  8. Jan 5, 2020
    oddfirejeeper

    oddfirejeeper Active Member

    Hamilton, MI
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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  9. Jan 5, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Embedded video says it's a 231, so I presume it's even fire. No reference to odd or even in the article.
     
  10. Jan 5, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    When I started to do my research on the EFI for 225s the OF was what all the builders were concerned with. Those I talked to were more concerned with an old points system and it not producing a strong enough signal for the ECU to figure out and just didn't want to be blamed for issues.

    Since then, I've helped or put on 3 different EFI systems on 225s and about to do my 4th sometime this spring. The one thing they all have in common I will say is conversion to HEI and using the adapter/wiring/settings for HEI. It's a tach signal - pure and simple - I've not seen a single system that DOES NOT control or work with of some kind of the spark really care about if its EF or OF on the signal. By that, to be clear, I mean that those just using an RPM signal seem to WORK. ALL of them convert to RPM that do not control spark or advance, and it just does not matter in the end.

    Think about it - if the signal stays consistent for a given RPM, the computer is just using a 'reference' for how fast the motor is turning. It then adds the other inputs, of air, fuel pulse, tps, and most importantly the O2 level in exhaust. That is what is really driving how the new self tuning units work - the O2. The other items are just reference so it knows what to program pulses to at a give set of parameters to achieve the O2 level goals.

    The ones I talked to recently like Holley are really more concerned that they don't have a way to test or verify something on such a small market and are simply not interested in taking the risk of saying it works.
     
    Buildflycrash, sterlclan and Fireball like this.
  11. Jan 6, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    The Holley can work with many different spark setups, including their proprietary DIS type stuff.

    Assuming you set this up without any programmatic spark control, and run a normal crank trigger wheel, I don’t see how odd or even can even matter. The number of cylinders won’t either. You just have to match the “logical” cylinders to the crank trigger you use. You should be able to use a cheapy V8 crank trigger, assuming it bolts up and such.
     
  12. Jan 8, 2020
    oddfirejeeper

    oddfirejeeper Active Member

    Hamilton, MI
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    i think i might give it a try with the 2gc. i have hei ignition already.
     
  13. Jan 8, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I'm thinking about trying it too once I get past a couple of other projects. Please report your results!
     
  14. Jan 9, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    I'd Contact Hamilton EFI. He's a whiz at TBI installs.. If anyone can do it Bill can.
     
  15. Feb 4, 2020
    Hônes

    Hônes New Member

    Colorado Springs CO
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    On my ‘71 R-II with the 225, I utilized a rebuilt TBI from a 1990-ish Camaro 305 motor mounted to an adapter/block off plate on to a Grand National turbo (plus exhaust manifold) and intake manifold into the remainder of the dauntless.

    A DUI distributor got rid of the points and the first trial run program on the Howell prom chip tried to get things to run but the odd fire timing the ECM was getting confused the heck out of it. The computer would take the uneven ignition signal as if the engine was going fast (more fuel) when the two closely spaced cylinders fired and then suddenly going slow (less fuel) when two widely spaced cylinders fired.

    Had to bolt on a crank trigger wheel with three magnets spaced 120° apart to provide the computer with an even fire rpm signal while the odd fire distributor fed the ignition. It took several back and forths with those prom chips from Howell before we got a workable fuel mapping, etc but we did get it!

    I’ll add that having a turbo while rock crawling required a hand throttle be added to eliminate the bouncing foot causing untimely turbo spool up and associated slamming in to rocks.
     
    mortten and Tom_Hartz like this.
  16. Feb 6, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Please provide pics of this setup...... I have a turbo brick setup in the parts stash.....
     
  17. Feb 6, 2020
    Hônes

    Hônes New Member

    Colorado Springs CO
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    Somewhere under all the wires, hoses, and exhaust tubes is a Dauntless. I converted it to full hydro power steering and on board air along the way. Crossover pipe to get the driver’s side manifold’s exhaust flow to the passenger side to join it to turn the turbine was wedged carefully between the oil pan and bell housing. I reused a greatly shortened factory exhaust system without a muffler from my tow rig Doosh 2500 Cummins diesel. 3” from turbo into the 4” outlet (but tucked up underneath to not get banged around on stuff).

    first pic is the passenger side wheel well with Jeep facing to the right. The bottom tube is the exhaust from the driver side coming up to join the passenger side before continuing up top. The larger top tube is the 3” down pipe after the turbo.
    A7C78EF3-780F-4207-A54F-66D29DCFF018.jpeg
    second pic is the engine compartment
    5309FDED-FAE6-480F-9167-13CD244420CD.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  18. Feb 6, 2020
    Hônes

    Hônes New Member

    Colorado Springs CO
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    Triple magnet trigger wheel to feed the ECM mounted to the crankshaft is sort of visible up underneath there in red:
    AA6F8B61-5889-4962-9708-AB0D3CF31DFA.jpeg here’s from the passenger side with the air cleaner removed. The mini air filters are for the York compressor (on the right) and valve cover breather (one on the left)
    F8FE3672-D6EC-40CD-A07A-EC9A09642612.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
    Buildflycrash, AKCJ, Muzikp and 2 others like this.
  19. Mar 19, 2020
    jwinsley

    jwinsley Windblown

    Kauai
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    I have been doing some Holley Sniper research. One complaint I have come across is that the secondary bores open with the primaries. Some people says this can make it hard to control off idle since all 4 bores open at once. A reseller, EFIsystempro, sells a progressive linkage kit but that messes up port vacuum since the Sniper uses the secondaries for the ported vacuum. So I have settled on a Sniper 2300, the 2 barrel version of the Sniper, have that on order. Guess I didnt have to change the intake manifold after all.
    One of the EFIsystempro tech said the odd fire HEI would not be a problem on the Sniper.
     
    Muzikp and txtoller like this.
  20. Mar 19, 2020
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sacramento Ca.
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    Would love to see a detail thread on the install (y)
     
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