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Ted's Steering Upgrade, With A Twist

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by garage gnome, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Jan 6, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    Back in October, I pulled a V6 ross box out of a 1970 CJ5 to upgrade the steering in Ted. His original ross box is shot, not mention the bell crank as well. I would have gone with power saginaw, but I have a PTO winch and I also don't want to be cutting holes in my grille or fender wells for other PS boxes. I have another plan to turn the original style steering into power. ;)

    [​IMG]

    The worm gear looked to be in great shape, but the two pins on the sector shaft were junk. I took those out and replaced with new.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And before pulling the pitman arm off, I noticed there was a stamping on it and the shaft for proper alignment.

    [​IMG]

    Put all new bushing's and bearing in the steering box and topped of the rebuild with a tightsteer.

    [​IMG]

    I bought a new column and bearing for that as well because the old one was shot...

    [​IMG]

    The steering wheel puller is a must from Kaiser Willys if you plan on working on ross type steering.

    [​IMG]

    And the next phase will be the modified bell crank from Mike (Mcruff), which can been seen here.

    This Mornings Machining Project
     
    jeepstar likes this.
  2. Jan 6, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Bendix???
     
  3. Jan 6, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    Nope, something better
     
  4. Jan 6, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    The modified bell crank is awesome! No more wobble or slop.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And I got the new ross box in. Looks much better than the original one.

    [​IMG]
     
    58 willys likes this.
  5. Jan 6, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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  6. Jan 7, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Now you got ME curious!!
     
  7. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    You can blame my backhoe or any other piece of equipment for this one. I got to thinking about how hydraulic steering works and what is involved with it. Started doing some research and stumbled upon a thread on pirate 4x4 (as much as I dislike that site) where I guy put hydro assist on a Ford with manual steering. Bingo, light bulb went off!

    So essentially, there will be a steering servo on the steering shaft to control the hydraulic cylinder.

    I machined up some sprockets on my lathe, one to go on the steering shaft, and the other to go on the servo. The servo is supposed to inline with the steering shaft, but then my horn will not work, and I didn't want to cut up the steering shaft.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The steering column will get cut back some. I have another upper column bearing that I modified so it will slide down to where the sprocket is. And then the dashboard clamp will support the tube and prevent it from spinning.

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    I will build an adjustable mount for it to take up the slack in the chain. The servo is a lightweight one from sweet manufacturing. I'll probably have to add a heat shield between the servo and exhaust manifold.

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    I mounted up the cylinder on the axle. It looks like it should work pretty good, and the steering does cycle lock to lock.

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    I know it looks close to hitting the bell crank, but it doesn't when I jacked it all the way up. The bell crank is slightly behind the cylinder even though it doesn't look it.

    [​IMG]

    And for added insurance, I put a bump-stop on the cylinder mount. The factory bump-stops are supposed to be lowered when I put the lift kit in. I never did that.

    [​IMG]

    I had an old 4cyl water pump that leaked, so I cut the pulley off to make room for the pump. I'll weld it to the existing one. I'll also add a spacer so I can bolt the fan back on. The double crank pulley is used up because of the on board ail and the alternator. I don't want to reconfigure all that since it works so nice and never squeaks. My main goal with this jeep is to keep it as stock looking as possible from the outside. I don't know if anyone has noticed (you can see the original clamps and tee in the pics), but when I did the D30 swap, I ran the brake lines just like they were on a D25. I know the hydraulic cylinder is far from stock, but at a quick glance, it may look like a steering stabilizer.

    [​IMG]
     
    Rich M. likes this.
  8. Jan 7, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    I was wondering if that's the direction you were headed. Nice plan and execution. :clap:(y)
     
  9. Jan 7, 2018
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Good job... You fooled me.
     
  10. Jan 7, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Would a late '60s Ford Mustang/Torino power steering ram work easier? The control valve is the tapered pin on the cylinder. This could replace the drag link, or replace the short tie rod when using a 1 piece system.
    We converted our Kubota tractor to power steering when it was almost new by mounting the Ford cylinder directly to the steering arm on the output of the steering box, replacing the original draglink. Worked great.
    -Donny
     
  11. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    If I’m understanding you correctly Donny, a part of the mechanical system is being removed. If for whatever reason the power steering fails, the mechanical will be a backup.
     
  12. Jan 7, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Actually the Ford system would be the Bendix(ish) system I alluded to earlier, the valve is not on the cylinder, it's a separate unit that takes the place of the TRE that connects the tie rod to the bellcrank.

    upload_2018-1-7_16-40-2.png



    The older Monroe system integrated the valve into the assist cylinder.

    upload_2018-1-7_16-59-31.png

    upload_2018-1-7_16-59-54.png


    I've got a Bendix cylinder & valve off a '56 Packard that's earmarked to go on Tonk when I have the time & enthusiasm. :)
     

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  13. Jan 7, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Nate, how are you making allowance for the (potentially) different turns ratio between the Ross & spool valve/cylinder? Different sized sprockets or are you sizing the cylinder diameter?
     
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  14. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

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    I’m not at this moment. I was wondering about that, but could not find any specs on the servo. Seeing how it is meant to go in the steering shaft anyways, I figured I’d start with a 1:1 ratio and go from there.
     
  15. Jan 7, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Got a mfg. # for the valve? You got me curious.













    Don't let it go to your head. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

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    Here you go Howard. If anyone can figure it out, you certainly will. The .185 valve is the same as on a Saginaw box, so there will be little to no resistance. As the number increases the more resistance you will feel. That what I gathered from surfing the mighty web.

    Lightweight Servos
     
  17. Jan 7, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If I'm understanding the valve literature correctly that's a torque/torsion controlled spool valve, what triggers an output is stress across the valve between the shaft on one end & the shaft on the other. If I've interpreted your design correctly you're only connecting one shaft to the steering column via the chain drive; I don't think this will work :( You'd have to insert the valve into the middle of the steering column shaft.

    Sweet Mfg Small Power Steering Control Valve 0.185 Torsion 3/4-30 Spline To Driver 3/4-48 To Rack - Kartek Off-Road

    AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - How Power Steering Works
     
  18. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

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    You're right Howard, I clamped one end in the vise and twisted the other side with channel lock pliers. There is a torsion spring inside it. I wonder what would happen if I put a brake on the other side to activate it.... :whistle:
     
  19. Jan 7, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've devoted years worth of occasional idle speculation to this subject so I already know the answer. :D



    I'll leave it as a thought exercise for you to sharpen your mental skills with :twist:


    I will however give you this for something to get the brain juices flowing. :)

    https://www.midweststeering.com/wp-content/uploads/HPSService2.pdf
     
  20. Jan 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

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    Thanks Howard. I’ll have to read that tonight before bed.

    I did however manage to get the pump bracket mocked up.

    [​IMG]
     

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