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Ted's Steering Upgrade, With A Twist

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by garage gnome, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Feb 10, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Howard, if you do this, please post it up here. I'd like to see what you come up with. Besides welding the mount on the axle, everything else can be easily reversed. I think the cylinder could also be clamped on the axle.
     
  2. Feb 10, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Jun 19, 2009
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    3,083
  3. Feb 11, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Jun 28, 2006
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    2,754
    Maybe start a clean build thead? What you started with, all appropriate part #s, methods etc. I like this thread a lot. Its another option for us ross box jeepers that dont want to cut up the original.
     
  4. Feb 11, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    This is the cylinder I used:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tgi-130250-1-kit

    The corvette valve:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-28-6623/overview/make/chevrolet/model/corvette

    The pump and reservoir:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all48250/overview/

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all36126/overview/

    Fan spacer:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-878/overview/

    FWIW, I would just use a regular saginaw power steering pump with an integrated reservoir and mount it above the generator/alternator. I wasn't able to because Ted has a belt driven air compressor. Then you could use the other crank pulley to drive the pump and not have to make a double water pump pulley. I was also informed by my M38 guru (Bill F) that those had double water pump pulleys. The hydraulic hoses will be expensive to have made up. My work has a hydraulic hose machine, so I was able to make up all my own hoses and make them fit properly. These hoses are way overkill too, they are 3 or 4 wire and are rated for 3,000 PSI. Also keep in mind the orientation of the fittings. The hoses aren't long enough to put a twist in to line up the fittings. Thats why I put all the hoses in before crimping the ends on. I made some marks on the fittings and hoses to ensure proper alignment.

    [​IMG]

    Return adapter:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-961956erl/overview/

    Pressure adapters:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-961956erl/overview/

    The adapter to go from the corvette valve to drag link is pretty straight forward. The big end is 1-1/16" - 18 RH thread with a notch for the clamp bolt to pass through and the other end is 11/16" - 18 RH thread. The adapters to go from inverted flare to JIC are something I made up. I ordered adapters to go from metric O-ring to #6 JIC. I whittled the O-ring side down on the lathe and rethreaded them and faced them to work. I had to order dies to thread them.

    [​IMG]

    One last thing I might do is make a brush guard to protect the fittings coming off the driver's side of the valve. I would hate to snap those off. What worked for me might not work for you. I spent a lot of time jacking my jeep up to flex it out to make sure nothing hit. Just mock it all up, check things out and make it work and look good.
     
  5. Feb 11, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Jun 19, 2009
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    I don't think you have to upgrade your ross box either. The stock one should be fine since most of the force is applied to the axle and tie rod. Very little is in the steering box and drag link. Just rebuild it and make sure it is good and tight.
     
  6. Feb 16, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
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    3,784
    Good job both Nate & Howard.............Interesting for me as I'm looking for a more compact Hydro steering method that can do the work and yet still be street legal...........Have you done any calculations regarding force that relates to all the components used? Like Tire size , vehicle weight, Cylinder size , pump volume , pressure and speed ?
     
  7. Feb 16, 2018
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    4,461
    Sort of late chiming in on this but I've been running the Vette control valve in my 3B since about 1976 but it is mated with the Corvette sector box (manual). The 1 1/16-18 threaded drag link goes to the outside hole on the two hole right knuckle. I'm using a Sweet PS pump and remote reservoir similar to yours along with a Flex-a-Lite cooler on the return line. Until recently, I just used the stock Corvette cylinder (it got replaced with a 2" diameter PSC cylinder on the new axle). The stock cylinder does just fine with tires up to 33's in a flatty. Never tested it beyond that.

    I actually think the system is better than the integrated PS boxes. All the loading on steering components and mounting up stream of the assist cylinder is essentially eliminated-including the sector box. And it's lighter. The only real downside is the extra hoses. I've had a couple of minor leaks on the trail in the intervening 4 decades but nothing serious enough to cause problems. Steering control both in and out of the rocks is great.

    As for your hoses and protection, I used right angle hose ends at the control valve to keep the hoses from looping out.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2018
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    4,461
    A few photos of my system-realizing some of this is not directly applicable to mounting to either 134.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I made the "U" ends for the hoses using a forming die I machined out of 2" cold rolled and Aero Quip PS reusable hose ends. The return and power hose ends are 90 degrees.
     
  9. Feb 16, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Jun 19, 2009
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    I agree with you on this setup being better than a typical ps box. Like I said, there is little force on the steering on the steering gear. I’m excited to try it out more on the trails. I’m glad you have been running for that long. Makes me feel better!
     
  10. Feb 16, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    I haven’t. I’m running stock tires, so it is more than enough for my jeep.
     
  11. Feb 16, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Hey- all credit to Nate- he's the guy who actually did it. :)
     
    Bowbender and tarry99 like this.
  12. Feb 16, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    You were my technical advisor.
     
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  13. Feb 17, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    Rather than getting a mutual admiration society going here I'll just make a few statements-

    1. You owe me $2000 for services rendered.​

    2. I made it all up.​


    :D
     
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  14. Mar 31, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Today was the first time I took Ted on paved roads and did some wheeling in mud and rocks. This mod is definitely worth it!!!! He drove really well on the road.
     
    Bowbender likes this.
  15. Apr 7, 2018
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    Nate, your other 2 setups will be shipped out Tuesday morning. Sorry for the delay, been really busy with life the last 2 weeks.
     
  16. Apr 7, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    That’s ok Mike. I haven’t been working on the other jeeps lately.
     
  17. May 2, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Got Ted up 60 today and he drove straight as could be. I highly recommend this upgrade to anyone that wants to retain the stock steering system. It’s even better on the trails, so frame or suspension flex while trying to turn the wheels in rugged terrain.
     
  18. Dec 3, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Its been about a year since I started this thread and I will say this system has worked flawless. I am very happy with it.
     
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  19. Dec 17, 2018
    dieseljeeper

    dieseljeeper New Member

    spanaway, wa
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    Mar 7, 2017
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    #4 and# 6 jic can be adaped to inverted flare by using steel tubing with a Parker nut and sleeve. Use the inverted flare to attach to the valve, flare the other end to 37 degrees with the corresponding sleeve then make your hydraulic hose with a jic male fitting that will hook up with the short tube you just made
     
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