4spd Ramblings

Man this is some really neat info.. On the bellhousing you said you'll have to drill & re-tap it for the :v6: ?? So far that sounds like its gonna be the most difficult part, to make sure they are all drilled so that input shaft is in alignment with the pilot bushing. But for only having 150 bucks in it thats awesome :golf clap:

 

Gonna leave that to the machinist, but judging by the work laying around his shop, doesn't look like it's going to be much of a chore for him. Looks like about 15 motors in line in front of me, and then we get to find out if this idea will work. If not, I'll just go the Ford 2wd input shaft/clutch route.

On a side note, I really wish that I was at a place and time in my life where I could just plunk down a wad of cash for a well equipped machine shop and then apprentice under someone like this. I have an incredible amount of respect for people with the skills to turn a piece of nothing into something, and make it look good in the process. As a society, I think that we are doing ourselves a diservice by shipping talent like that over seas and putting all our incentives toward corporate positions. I'll try not to get on my political soap box, but my hats off to you guys that keep that rich part of our heritage alive.

 

The 18-8-23 bull gear is the stock Jeep 6 spline 29 tooth 18 transfer case gear. The 18-8-31 is from a T-shift early Bronco 20 case with 2.46-1 low range. They interchange fine but stock they did not have the recess cut in the gear for the retaining washer or nut so they could not be used with a PTO because the PTO input would hit the nut. I have seen some people machine the recess in there with good luck though. Nickmil

 

The machining work is relatively cheap. You will have to turn a Ford input retainer down to fit the diameter of the(short/early) bell housing retainer hole. This will align the input shaft with the pilot bushing. Install a Ford or short input shaft into the trans. If memory serves the splines will have to be cut back about 3/4". Turn the tip down to except a stock GM pilot bushing. Simply install the bearing on the shaft, and place the assembled input shaft/bearing/retainer on the installed bell housing. Mesure the difference and that is how much you will need to turn ithe splines back. As for the adapter, it is already on the back of the trans. It and the output shaft is the 450$ plus "kit" that you buy from Novak.

 

Visited the machine shop today. Work is coming along nicely. Just for the sake of knowing, I ordered some standard conversion parts to see how they'd match up. Here's what I found:

1) The input shaft of the FSJ T-18 will not work with a Ford retainer. It will slide over the Jeep shaft, but there is a compatibility issue with the oil seal. The FSJ retainer has a reverse-cut spiral on the inside that keeps grease and oil from entering the bell. It does not use a seal. The Ford retainers have no spiral on the inside and use a rubber seal. There are cheap pre-cut Ford retainers that I thought might be able to be adapted to the Jeep shaft, but there is nothing for the seal to ride on, so it would theoretically just get chewed up by the input shaft. Hence, if you go the FSJ route, you either need to buy all Ford input end parts, or use all Jeep parts and have them machined.

2) Whichever retainer you use, it will not fit the GM bell stock. Novak apparently sells a turned-down Ford retainer, but after looking at both the Jeep and custom Ford retainer right next to each other, I think the best thing to do is just enlarge the bell; there is not a whole lot of room to work before you are cutting into the bolt holes that hold the retainer onto the front of the trans. The GM bell is aluminum, so machine work is easy.

3) The inside of my bell was ribbed. The ribs got thicker and taller at each trans mounting hole. Since the new trans would be mounting to areas that weren't reinforced, the bottom holes required a small amount of material to be added to the bell. The top holes were easily enlarged.

Hoping to get it back in a week or two and I'll shoot some pics.

 

You can machine the Ford bearing retainer down to fit the GM bellhousing with no problems and without cutting into the bolt holes or creating strength issues. I've installed literally over a hundred of these machined retainers with no issues. You will need to use a socket headed bolt though as the stock retainer bolts have too large of a head and interfere. R&P also sells the turned down retainers as well as the proper pilot, so does Partsmike. R&P also sells a modified Ford case that will bolt directly to a GM bellhousing with no adapters. Nickmil

 

Just a little update:

Here are some pics of the modified Dauntless bell and modified FSJ retainer bolted onto the case. The retainer still has the FSJ spiral cut on the inside, and now accepts the standard GM throwout bearing. The bell was put down onto some kind of boring machine that finds the exact center, then was bored out to accept the stock diameter of the retainer. I forget the name of the machine, but he uses it for cylinders, so supposedly it is pretty accurate. He used the the two top stock bolt holes on the bell, but slotted the top holes on the case. For the bottom holes, he welded in some material, then drilled and tapped.

The other pic is of the input shaft. He has it cut down to length, but hasn't machined the splines yet. You can see one spline has been started. Said he should have it all ready to go by the weekend, so I'm getting pretty excited now.

 

Input shaft is done. This was taken just prior to a finishing pass and polishing. It turned out purdy nice. Just need to figure out how to assemble a T-18 now.

 

niceeeeeeeeeeeee

 

subtlety doesn't seem to be your long suit here adam.R)

 

I've always got my eyes open for Sparky's T-18 and MOP's SM420. Never know what I might show up with in Manhattan someday.

 

Finally got around to finishing the T-18 today. Ready to install I am into it for $328.50. Here is how it breaks down:

FSJ T-18 "runner when pulled" - $50
Input shaft and retainer machine work - $100
Bell housing machine work - $25
Rebuild kit (gaskets, bearings) - $140
RTV sealant - $3
Replacement poppet balls (because I lost them) - $.50
Primer/Enamel - $10

The key to doing this project, if you want to attempt it on your own, is finding the right machinist. Chances are, he's not going to be listed in the yellow pages. Hang out at the local circle track, especially if they run "outlaw" or "modified" classes; those are the guys that have the 411 on who does the odd ball stuff like this. You also have to have some patience to get the price right. Chances are, if he can just shelve it on the back burner and "get around to it" someday, you aren't going to pay as much as if you give a deadline.

Here are some pics. Now I just need a JEEP to put it in.


Pretty good shot of the input shaft here. That used to be an FSJ input shaft. It was over a foot long when I got it. It was cut down and machined as described in the previous posts of this thread. The tip will accept a stock GM pilot bushing, and the splines match a stock 10.5" GM clutch disc.



That retainer is also the stock FSJ retainer. It was important to re-use this because the inside has a reverse spiral cut similar to a rifle that allows lubrication, but doesn't allow the gear lube to leak out the front. It has been cut down and turned to accept a stock GM throwout bearing.



Here is a shot of the stock FSJ adapter. It was originally intended for a D20, but will now bolt up to a D18. That bull gear is getting replaced by a 6 spline Warn OD.



Another shot of the adapter. Note that raised "ring" that is behind the bull gear; if you want to duplicate this project, you will either need to use a big hole D18 or have a small hole case bored out in order to fit over the adapter.

 

very, very nice work Clint.

 

That is a sweet setup, the guy did what looks to be a great job on the input shaft, especially for a $100 bill!!

 

looks good

 

Since no one mentioned it, I'm probably wrong. :? I thought the idea was to find the center of the bellhousing hole from the input shaft center, and enlarge from there, not just make the bellhousing hole larger than it's original size, centered from the original hole. Sounds confusing to me, but thought that's the way it was done. Maybe that is what was done, and I don't understand.

Paul

 

In effect, that is what was done. Yes, you are correct.

 

Good work. Looks great.

 

Thanks for keeping us updated and taking the great pictures!

 

Clutch alignment, T-18 ready to go in. All stock Buick clutch parts:


Like a glove: