4spd Ramblings

Sorry this is long. Need to vent a little. Had the wind let out of my sails today.

It all started with a garage sale. I don't normally do garage sales, but I happened to drive by one and saw old iron sitting out, so I thought "What the heck. Little look-see can't hurt." And there it was, scattered among various pieces of 3 or 4 projects gone astray, a T18. Still had a D20 adapter bolted on the back, Texas pattern. "How much for the trans?" The guy started to reply, "Oh, how 'bout fitty bucks," but I had the money in his hand before he could finish his sentence. Once home, I start investigating.

Turned out my little garage sale find was out of a '79 FS J20 pickup originally mated to an AMC 360 and Dana 20. It has a ridiculously long input shaft, which I assumed would be my biggest hurdle. So, I take it by a local machinist who tells me "No problem." Says he can cut and respline the shaft to match the GM hub and bushing. The retainer can be machined down for the throwout bearing, and the bell has enough material to drill and tap for a no-adapter fit. Great! Theoretically I could have a 4spd installed for $150, retain stock clutch components, and only add 1.5" to the drivetrain. By this point, I was no longer just seeing "What if..." Instead, I was now determined that I must have a 4spd.

Well, today I pull my D18 off the T14. Immediately I notice that the T18 has 6 splines on the rear while the T14 has 10. It appears that the Buick CJ and the Jeepster had 10 splines, while most everything else had 6. No problem, I'll just call up Novak and get a new shaft. Wrong! Novak only makes Ford shafts. For some reason they won't fit the jeep trans.

So, here is what I learned: It looks to me that the FSJ T18 would fit easily with some machine work, but you would no be able to install a Warn OD. I think that if someone had 3.73 gears, this shouldn't be a problem. With a 6.32:1 first gear, you would still get a 58:1 low range crawl. Fairly respectable, and the high range would still be very streetable. There you have it, a cheap 4spd; you can't hardly give away an FSJ in my area. For my 4.88 application, though, I've been spoiled with that darn Warn.

The problem is, now I'm practically hell-bent on putting in a 4spd this winter. I talked to Ryan at Novak for a few minutes, and he says what I need to do is find an SM465; says that would be the least amount of hassle for a GM motor and 18 T-case. No problem, there's one sitting a block up the street for $125. But then I go and add adapters, output shaft, driveshaft, machine work to the bell, new bearing retainer, etc. and I am way over budget. Might have to give up on the 4spd until next winter.

Venting over. Off to the salvage yard.

 

Sorry to say this but it happens. My little tranny swap has turned into one heck of an over budget expirence.

 

been through the same process in my head a dozen times or so... want a n sm420, can't find one. can find a 465 but once it is all in It will be spensive

 

If I remember correctly you can change the bull gear on the t18 to match the gears on your dana 18. You're stock one from a t14 should be 18-8-50, you will need to change this to a 18-8-23, they both have the same pitch and tooth count along with the same pressure angle. One is a 6 spline the other is a 10 spline.
Here is a link that will help http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer_case_gears_grid.htm

I'm not totally positive on this so maybe you can get a hold of nickmil or one of the others around here to confirm or deny this.

 

What about trying to find someone with a 6 spline overdrive (like Herm ) and selling yours on ebay to offset the price. You would spend much less this way, and retain the OD.

 

One should never set a budget when it comes to working on a Jeep, because you will almost always come out overbudget on it.

That is why all my projects are on hold right now though.

 

X2 the T14 I had used a goofy bull gear that was hard to find, the one you need you should be able to buy, though some I looked at were in the neighborhood of $70 new for a bull gear.

 

Funny, at about the same time you were probably posting this, I was on the phone with Herm.

Herm tells me that the 6 spline OD is by far his biggest seller. Very little demand for the 10 spline. And McRuff is right. I went out there and compared the bull gear on the T18 to the bull gear off the back of Eugene's T90. They are interchangeable. 29 teeth with a 15 tooth "sprocket." 18-8-23 came with the T18, 18-8-31 was in Eugene. My T-14 didn't have one because the OD bolts directly to the shaft. Even the threads on the end of the shaft for the OD retainer nut are the same! A couple hours ago Novak tells me this can't be done. Now I'm contemplating two choices:

1) Send the whole OD to Herm. For ~$220 he can swap me out a 10 spline "Spider blank" for a 6 spline.
2) Find a used 6 spline OD, then put mine up for sale. I've seen others do it on this board, so maybe I could just even swap.

I've gone and bolted everything together to make sure there are no more hidden catches, and as far as I can see everything other than the OD is a go. (Note to others: big hole case is a must for this project.) If this ends up working, I think there are a vast number of T-18s out there that could be put in on the cheap.

Off to the classifieds.

EDIT - http://www.earlycj5.com/classifieds...ory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=11

 

Sorry I missed it. Completely forgot and was in the GH working away. I realized my mistake at about 12:30 and figured I missed the boat.

It seems average minds think alike Clint. Glad you are finding solutions.

 

Here it is. FSJ T18 loosely bolted to a big hole D18, sans OD. Connected using only stock FSJ Texas pattern adapter that came with the trans, big hole case, and non-OD 29 tooth bull gear. The whole project is into me for $50 at this point. Pardon the grime.

 

Don't over-estimate me! R)

 

Do you have a 6 spline x 29 tooth?!?!

 

Dang. That is a thing of beauty!
So this is a heavy duty 4 speed t-18 with granny low and you don't need the expensive adapter that moves the t-case back and shortens the rear driveshaft!?
What's not to like?
I really like my sm420 but you've got a great looking setup there.

 

I wouldn't go that far. Check out Patrick's in the OT. Now that is a thing of beauty!

I'm trying not to jump to that conclusion, but if this ends up working out, I am going to have an adapterless T-18 install with stock Buick clutch on one end and stock D18 on the other. Well, technically not adapterless, but only using the factory FSJ components. By my measurements, I am going to be adding only 1.5" to what my T14 drivetrain was stock. With the amount of lift on my JEEP, I should be able to get by with the stock rear driveshaft no problem. The front I'll have to wait and see; maybe add a little length. Will post a write-up when I am through.