Tried starting jeep for first time in 15 yrs

Ok, my 57 cj5. I got all the kicks out of the pulleys, aligned everything, temporarily hung a battery on a piece of rope so i didn't have to use jumper cables to reach the battery leads (no batt. mounting plate). I squirted wd-40 in all the cylinders via the spark plug wholes. I decided it was time. I poured a little gas in the carb, and turned the key while feathering the gas pedal (in neutral, as my clutch cable is snapped). The engine spins very smoothly but won't kick. I pulled a couple plug wires off, held em close to the plug, and turned the key to see if I could find a blue spark arc. I didn't notice anything. I'm gonna go out and try it to the grounded engine block. anyways, any suggestions on where to start? carb, distributor, ignition coil? what would you guys do in my position? is there a better way to check for a spark via the distributor or ignition coil? any help would be very much appreciated.

 

From what I've read here I think I would make sure that the points are firing- If not, the first thing I would check is are the points grounded out to the dist. Many times the "paper" insulator will have decayed or somehow slipped from between the dist. housing and the points. Given that there is a spark on the points as you "crank" the engine I would put new plugs and wires on before looking elsewhere. Hope this helps you get started in your trouble shooting.

MM

 

So to go about that, I should pull the distributor cap off? I'm not sure exactly where to start. I've done tons of work on vehicles other than jeeps, unfortunatly, i never did any ignition work other than changing plugs, wires and rotors. Pull off the cap and then what should i look for?

 

It sounds like you've never seen a points distributor before. I would do a search for basic points setting or something like that. Hopefully you can find something w/ pictures to help you through it. Its not hard. The points (act. contact points) sit on a grounding plate inside the distributor cap just under the rotor. They are a hinged device w/ a flat spring at the hinge end and the contact points at the other. They are secured to the plate at one end and adjustable w/ a slot at the other. There is a part of the hinge arm that rides on a hexagonal sleeve on the distributor shaft. As the distributor shaft rotates it alternately opens and closes the contact points. The contact points should be flat, not pitted and set at a certain gap (a manual will tell you this I don't have it in memory). The gap is set at full open (hinge arm in contact w/ an apex of the hexagon) using a feeler guage. Loosen the set screw at the slot and move in or out to set this gap while checking w/ the feeler guage. If your points are pitted, get a new set, they are cheap. Also 180* from the points and connected to the points w/ a wire is the condenser (a cylindrical object). Either of these can cause the ignition to not fire. A new condenser comes w/ the points set, always change it out also. Look the cap and rotor over well for cracks and corroded contacts, and small sooty black marks(could indicate a burn through). Corrosion can be cleaned, anything else, replace. Hopefully others will chime in to catch the things I've omitted. To someone who has used points ignitions this stuff becomes second nature, as will you w/ time, but to think through it and put it down in words makes my head hurt. Good luck. :v6:

 

As for just looking to see if the points fire: Simply remove the cap, MAKE SURE THE JEEP IS IN NEUTRAL, and turn the engine over. As the the distributor parts function, you should see a spark as the contacts open with each revolution of the dist. pinon. If this is not the case, look into new points and a condenser (or even furhter). If there is spark, make sure that the rotor button is transferring the fire to the cap. That is to say, make sure there is contact between the "springy thing" on the button and the carbon like part inside the center of the cap. Also, check to make sure that the brass portion of the button is not corroded or pitted. This will also impede fire from going to the respective plug. All this is in addition to what granny mentioned.

It sounds like you are doing fine and being cautious. Let us know what you learn.

MM

 

nothing. how would I check the ignition coil, as that does give the spark to the distributor in the first place, right? I pulled the wire of the center of the distributor cap, and tried arcing it to the engine block. once again, nothing. does this mean my ignition coil is bad, or am I just making up ways to test things?

 

The coil has to be checked w/ a multimeter. There is a certain resistance across the terminals (again consult tech manual). It would probably be just as easy to take it to your FLAPS. They will check it for you. Unless you know what you're doing its not a good idea to monkey test a coil. They produce about 30,000 volts and could KILL.:v6:

 

Granny is correct- The easiest and safest way to check the coil is by placing your VOM (Volt-Ohm meter) to the appropriate resistance setting and seeing if the correct value is measured.

Correct me if I am wrong but if there is no spark across the "breaker points" then there is no way the coil can function as it should. You need to determine why 12 volts is not getting to the points etc before you worry with the coil. In trying to give a good answer for these questions I ran across a "How stuff works" link that I think you'll find interesting. Basically you should ask yourself questions such as; Where does this action originate and what next. For example, you know that your battery is good b/c it will turn the engine over. That would be the origin- Now what next. We've determined there is no fire to the plugs- What next. Next we've determined that there is not fire across the points- Next we must determine why that is... Firewall resistor? Broken ign. wire? Bad switch? Think of the this sub-system of the jeep in a linear manner. Write us back and we'll see figure out what's next.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm/printable

MM

 

I am a huge fan of the "how stuff works" website and actually read that website about 5 min after I made my post previous post last night. So the coil only amplifies the voltage to produce an arc is what I learned. I was under the impression that where it all began. I'll leave the coil alone for now. I'm gonna dig deep and find books and websites about ignition until I get the spark under the cap. I was under the impression that the spark begins at the ignition coil, but now I'm pretty sure the battery goes straight to the distributor, which is where the spark begins? So that where I should start. I am probaly the most stubborn person you've ever met, but it adversly makes me very determined. I never give up and I have never left a project uncompleted. Its just a matter of time before I gain enough knowledge, get a spark, and start up my jeep. I'll let you know when that is, thanks for the advice guys.

 

1st place to check is the balast resistor, if is a small ceramic unit on the fire wall, turn the ignition switch on and check to see if there is 12 volts to one side of it and maybe 9 volts on the opposite side. If you have power there, follow this wire down to the distributor and then check there.

 

x2 Mcruff
Just stay w/ it. Folks on this site will walk you through it. You'll get her running. Just please ask if you don't know. The ignition system can burn you bad.:v6:

 

X3

 

some pics of my points. Could a battery that is not fully charged turn an engine but not give a spark? If I test a battery across the leads for voltage, what should it read (with the vehicle off)? I believe its suppose to read 8v, right?



/\which is the ballast resistor?/\


{edited pics so they weren't HUGE}

 

It is the white ceramic thing up on the firewall in the picture.

 

ok, I just got done changing the oil and took a good look at all the points. first off, sorry about posting those pics so large. second, the points feel really sloppy. this could be perfectly normal but it just didn't seem right. both the points had plenty of play in them and moved freely, and sat where you left them, though when I turn it a little by hand, the springs would snug them up. Also, and I could be mistaken because I was doing the famous three arm tricks you have to come up with when your alone, and my perception was slightly altered, but I didn't see the points clicking when they spun (firing and retracting) which I assume they are suppose to do? I'm pretty sure they just sat in place. I'm sure its a good Idea to change the points set anyways. I can get them at autozone, right? Ok, now the interesting part. I got in there with a multimeter. At the time I wasn't sure which unit on the fire wall was the ballast resistor, so I checked them both. I had a feeling it was the white one, so right away I bridged the terminals, but still no spark from the points ( i am suppose to see the points sparking, right?). The other unit on the firewall looked like some kind of fuse or transformer, so I didn't feel to good about bridging that baby, especially since it says "do not short to ground" So I checked for voltage from both terminals on the white ballast resistor, putting a lead on the terminal and a lead on the body(ground). I cranked the engine. I got nothing on the multimeter! This must mean I have a bad wire going from the ignition to the right side of the ballast resistor. I am going to wait for a couple of your opinions, then I will re-wire the ignition, and put in a new point set, and who knows, maybe the beast will wanna fire.

 

I think I realized that the spark is suppose to be coming out of the ignition coil and not between the points. I'm an idiot, leave me alone. I figure I can connect the wire coming out of the ballast resistor to the positive battery lead. With the engine on, this will tell me if I can get a spark. two questions. when you guys say engine on, do you mean auxillary or I have to actually stand there with the key and take it to the next notch to turn the engine? I've been turning the engine the whole time, but it would be awsome if all I had to do was leave the auxillary on, then check the coil for voltages, etc. . second question. is the best place to look for a spark on the spark plug wire coming out of the coil? this won't work if the coil is bad, correct? Well, its almost 11pm, its freezing out, and I'm still up. Looks like i should be outside testing the jeep some more.

 

The other unit that is on your fire wall is a voltage regualtor. Been so long since I had one on my Jeep I can't remember how to hook one up right but yours doesn't seem right. Turn the ignition to the on position and check to see if you have power to the right hand terminal in the picture. You should get 12 volts or there abouts.

 

Just got in, did alot of testing. was just about to ask what that other unit was. I figured it was a fuse but a voltage regulator sounds good. First of all, I wasn't getting very good readings testing to the body or engine. I mostly had to test to the negative terminal on the battery. I thought it was a bad ground so I took out my ground wire, looked for shorts, found none, sanded the terminal and the connection point on the engine block. still didn't test perfect. maybe its just that the rust on my engine interferes when I put the lead of the multimeter to it. moving on...I checked everything to the negative terminal on the battery. I got 12 volts going in and coming out of the ballast resistor and 12 volts going in and coming out of the voltage regulator. I tested the positive of the coil and it yielded around .5, i checked the negative for haha's incase I had them screwed up and it gave me about .5 as well. I really thought it was the wire going from the key to the rest of the ignition. sounds like the coil? should I replace the coil? Also, what is a Pertronix? Sounds like I should get one instead of another set of points. Is it an easy swap? It sounds way more trusing for about $75?

 

More point replacement info here;http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/aa052502a_2.htm

another;http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmmptis.htm