F-134 To Dauntless Recommendations

I understand and have read a handful of Dauntless engine threads. There is soooooo much information out there I’m hoping you fellas could help guide me.

Dorris came with an f head. It was a poor runner but needed work so I had it professionally torn down and completely rebuilt. It now runs perfect, and with the Pertronix, Weber carb, Clifford header she is enjoyable. But it’s simply not enough. I was hoping it would be, but I’d like to take her on something more than backroads. Pulling a grade on a mountain highway doing 30mph isn’t safe, and I’d like to tow my little M416 on some camping trips. My 134 runs just fine, cruises fine 50-60 on the flat, especially with my OD, however I live at altitude and while I have rejetted it, these mountains (3,000-7,000 feet) are too frequent and too steep.

I’ve found a semi local previously running (has video) complete 225 with heads, clutch and correct bell housing to my T-90. Going to a V8 is probably more work than I want, and is more engine than I need.

they’re asking $500 which seems high for the 225

My intention would be tear it down, have it machined, throw in a cam, a holly sniper and whatever else to give it a few moderate upgrades without spending a pile of cash. Obviously engine mounts and the longer shaft are required. Once I’m ready, off-set some of the cost of it by selling the f-head. I’ve never rebuilt an engine before, so I believe some of the assembly would best be done professionally. I’ve got 2 versions of the “CJ Rebuilders Guide” coming in the mail.

my existing tranny & t/c are rebuilt. Disc brakes front and drums rear. Radiator & danna 44 front is new.

1) what’s a reasonable price for the running 225, bell housing, clutch?
2) Are there any factors I’m not taking into account? If so, Can you point me in the right direction?
3) will my new Saturn OD still be useable (or should I just plan on removing that)?
4) Any guidance on specific engine upgrades would be most helpful.

I know this topic has been covered many times. However I’m looking mainly for specific threads to read. I do not at all expect any of you to go over things that have been discussed before. Just point me in a couple directions for threads you would recommend I look into. I’m trying to teach myself, not burden you guys with instructing me.

very much appreciated.

 

My dad converted his 4cyl to a dauntless after a wreck in the 80’s. It was installed but We recently had to cut the mounts out & move it because it was hitting the firewall. I have no clue if it’s in the “right” spot now, but I can take measurements for you when we get it back from the exhaust shop.

to answer some of your questions.
We paid $300 for our 225, without an intake. It was rebuilt with a bigger cam a long time ago and never run.

we also have a T90 and I’ve got a spare bell housing if you can’t find one locally. It was cracked but I had it professionally repaired.

there is a bell housing plate that covers the opening at the bottom to protect the flywheel, I found someone on eBay that makes them.

we had to get a brake pedal from a V6 because it has an extra bend towards the top so that it can depress past the block without getting hung up.

I think the clutch linkage is longer too if I remember correctly.

 

Can you hear it run? Oil pressure, hot idle and above? Compression check? If it's supposedly a running 225, I would put it in and run it rather than tear it down. If you can't hear it run, that's a core engine and price should be commensurate. Maybe you can get some kind of money-back guarantee from the seller that it's what he represents it as. $500 for a good engine is not a lot IMO.

Why are you specifically pointing to the heads? Is the engine apart? Are other parts missing?

There's more to the usual adapter than a bell housing. You need the T-90 to GM adapter plate, and the longer T-90J input shaft from a Utility truck. Your T-90 also has to be a T-90A, to match the tooth count of the new input gear. There is a shorter adapter available that will work with the existing input shaft, but I think that will put the V6 into the firewall and involve a bunch more changes. CHeck the Novak page - lots of discussion there. https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/adapters/engine-to-transmission/gm/kits-cx/

You understand that basically nothing matches between the F134 engine installation and the 225? Just because Jeep used the 225, that does not make the conversion significantly easier than maybe a dozen other suitable engines. The Chevy 4.3L V6 is popular now, because there are manyu inexpensive donor vehicles out there that have this engine. If you buy a complete vehicle, you can run and drive the engine, which will be a big advantage. Often complete vehicles are cheaper than a good running engine by itself. The 4.3L typically comes with fuel injection, which you can salvage from the donor and use.

You will need an engine adapter, new motor mount towers, new radiator, new plumbing, new electrical, etc. Novak has a page that discusses this process - https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/engines/swap-guides/chevy-buick-gm/ Lots of other good info there too - suggest you browse every tab and read everything that looks remotely relevant.

 

well, Honestly I’d like to keep Dorris stock as she is. I did see an EJ that clearly hasn’t moved in a while sitting in someone’s driveway with a V6 badge on it. I’d much rather try to buy it and do a restomod.

Phuck

you really just made way more sense in that one sentence about finding a vehicle with a proper engine already

 

Yeah, I hear you.

I have responded to engine and transmission swap questions a few times with the suggestion that they sell the Jeep they have and buy one that is equipped the way they want. This comes up a lot on the Wagoneer forums. Not a welcome suggestion, typically.

How particular are you, or do you just want a Jeep you can drive on the highway? As well as 225-equipped Jeeps, there are a lot of Jeeps out there that have already been converted. The intermediate Jeeps are all fully highway capable, regardless how equipped. And they aren't that different in size and feel from the earlys. Better engines, better brakes, better steering from the factory.

 

I was in this boat some 11 years ago, well my 134 was toast but I was familiar with it when it was in good order.

With the cost of the sniper alone you can find an s10 or ASTRO van. The 4.3 and Buick need most of the same work. I'ld consider a Turbo 2.3 to fight the altitude.

$500 would be ok if it isn't cracked and looks well cared for.

 

Yeah…..you guys know what you’re talking about. I’m just gonna hold off and find something with a v6 or v8 already.

Thanks for your input. This was a stupid idea anyways.

 

What axle ratio are you now?
Have you considered going lower in axle ratio ?

 

[QUOTE="GillaFunk, post: 1711940, member: 95701"
Thanks for your input. This was a stupid idea anyways.[/QUOTE]

Not stupid, just a heck of a long road that isn't necessary. The 4.3 is stupid fun with 5.38s and a little pep

 

Factory 5.38.

I’m just gonna keep Dorris as she is. Which is what I really prefer. Plenty of other hot rods already out there to pick from.

 

My dad and both converted to V6's because of the terrain we live in. 6000 feet minimum, uphill (both ways) everywhere we went. If you want to road it to the trail, pull a trailer, and get up over 30 miles an hour in the mountains, a V6 is a tried and true solution. I'm an unabashed oddfire fan, so I won't be talking about a 4.3. Oh, and I think you can't go wrong with $500 for a running V6. That is a good deal in 2022.

 

What cam do you have now in the F134? That and fuel injection seem like the next option.

I drove the f-134 from NY state to Missouri three times and pulled the plow on a trailer for the last trip. It did 50-55 sometimes also stopped kinda ok.

I've driven in a group with a 2.3 in a m38a1 and it seemed ok. There is also a Turbo L134 I've been with but I have yet to see a Turbo L or F 134 without issues.

Either v6 will pull a bantam or m416 size trailer, a 1500 lb popup is a bit too much for my wheelbase and steering, but an intermediate would be just about right to pull an average popup camper.

 

Original cam. It was probably just polished at the machine shop.

Dorris will remain as she is. I’m in the Sierra Nevada mountains with big altitude changes. I’d rather buy a somewhat newer CJ than modify my girl as she sits. I like original

 

I did the opposant, I bought a 64 Tuxedo Park that had been our family of friends for over 27 years when I bought it. Donny the original owner bought it for a plow Jeep at his cabin in Northern Lower Michigan. Donny was and still is a Street Rodder, so he fixed it up. Put a 71 body on it and cleaned it all up put some Dick Cepek tires and wheels on it and had it looking good. The oil pan cracked, and he lost the motor, he bought another 64 CJ5 for the motor and fixed it up again. Donny sold it to my other Teddy, and I bought it from Teddy for my Cabin, in 2003. I decided to restore it, I traded Donny the plow for all his extra parts, then bought a 66 V6 donor Jeep, only 27 K miles on it. Then I found a NOS 1952 Military F 134 in the box, I put the F 134 in the V6 chassis, and used the V6 3:73 axels to restore my 64 CJ5 and it has worked out well for us, with the 3:73 axels gives us a good speed for touring the blacktop roads and the Firetails. I enjoy the F 134 for its original Jeep attitude. I hope you and Dorris have a Long and Happy life together enjoying the simple life.

 

To each their own. I doubt anybody has the same operating conditions/use. For me, either 134 and 3.73's would be totally worthless both on and off road. 134's, IMO, are close to worthless with 5.38's. BTDT. The 225 is what made the CJ's actually usable in all aspects of the modern environment. It was a night and day improvement.

If I had a stock F head CJ that was in good condition, it would stay that way. As per Tim's post, I would also sell it and buy something more suited to my use. I have no patience and give no space to garage/parade queens.

 

Ouch..........., Parade Queens? It's a Tux Clone at best, we have 11,000 acers of Hunting Land on our club, not too many Parades outback. I wanted to be able to tour State and Our Private land fire trails. I did my best to make a Jeep that would work for our Family in our Environment. Didn't mean to say anything else, Sorry if I upset you or anyone else. Rick

 

Something to keep in mind about the Saturn overdrive is that they aren't rated for heavy towing, especially in hilly areas. I emailed them about it and they suggested 2000lbs max but keep it on flat ground. If that's part of the mission for your Jeep you should look for something with a higher axle ratio so you can highway tow in direct drive.

 

I guess the F-134 is just one of those things, you either love them, or hate them.

When I bought my CJ5 it still had the original F head, but I was told the engine was stuck and needed rebuilt. I fully intended to install a Buick V6, I had a 225 in a junker Jeep, and acquired a late model low mileage 231. I gathered up all the parts needed for the conversion. While working on cleaning up the wiring, upgrading the brakes and refreshing the axle seals I also got the 4 cylinder running again. After sitting in a storage barn for 42 years that little engine came back to life, and with very little work I had it running great. I liked it so much I sold both of the V6 engines and delivered them to the new owners at the Fall Willys Reunion. I have no regrets about it.

I guess it depends on the intended use of the Jeep.

For what I will use the Jeep for, the F-134 is perfect. It has plenty of power at low speed, has no trouble climbing steep hills, or getting over rough ground. It easily goes fast enough on the road to suit me. I even love the way it sounds. I do not plan on towing heavy loads, as I have a truck for that, and I don't plan on driving it across country as I have a trailer to carry it to wherever I want to take it. On a daily basis I use it to get around my little farm, for driving into what passes for a "town" out here when I need to go to the Post Office or General store, or just want to drive the Jeep. I look forward to using it in the East Tennessee mountains this Spring where I have hunted and fished my whole life. I learned to drive in those mountains behind the wheel of a WW2 Jeep on hunting trips with my dad and uncles in the sixties, and compared to the flat head in those Jeeps, the little "Hurricane" deserves its name.

I sold the two V6 engines, but still have some parts to do the conversion I won't be using which I will carry to the Spring Willys Reunion for the swap meet.

 

It does indeed ALL get back to the expected/required use. In my case, that almost invariably includes 30 to maybe 150 highway miles (one way) followed by what I consider some respectable low range Jeep trail with typically 5 to 6k elevation change with a starting elevation above 5000 feet. I usually avoid interstates as much as possible but they are still most definitely in the mix. The Jeeps have to be adept in all aspects (read: 134's are not in that mix). I have never trailered a Jeep and have no plans to do that in the future.

Six decades back when I was getting my feet wet in off road endeavors, I was piloting an F head. But it was a far different world back then. There were no 4 lane highways/interstates hereabouts and gravel was the meme for a lot of the places I went. Even in that scenario, I found the lack of power pretty frustrating. Then I made that fateful mistake and bought a new CJ 5 with the 225. Wow. Something that actually would keep up with traffic and it more than doubled the radius of my usual local backcountry adventures, not to mention driving it over a large swath of the West for skiing. Then I made a second mistake three years later and bought the 3B. Back to the F head for a little over a year before the first of now four sbc's went in. Never look back---------