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Starter Issues

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Rob71246, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Aug 9, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    Jun 25, 2021
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    Hey guys,
    Coming here for help after a day of struggling. Finally home from deployment and able to put eyes and hands on my new to me 71 CJ5 with the dauntless. Noticed it had a rougher than expected (for an oddfire) idle, and spotted some of the plugset wires to be cracked through the insulation. Went ahead and made some new 8mm wired as its been converted to HEI. Also noticed a couple sparks while starting the jeep, so had someone crank while I looked. The sparks were coming from the main power wire to the starter. The terminal end was pretty rusty, so I replaced the main wire and terminal and wire brushed the starter terminal. Also tighted up the solenoid terminals as they were loose. I had the starter out and the solenoid off to do this. After buttoning everything and putting the wires back, all I get is a single click from the solenoid. No cranking/no start. The only wiring to the starter (delco) is the main from battery and a wire from the ignition. The alternator exciter goes to the battery, which is how it was before. I'm assuming the alternator is grounded through the case. Am I just looking at a coincidence of a bad starter?
     
  2. Aug 10, 2021
    iharding

    iharding Quitter

    Tacoma, WA
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    Feb 24, 2013
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    342
    In my experience 98% of electrical problems are a bad ground. My Jeep always started great when cool but would turn over slow or just click when hot. I replaced the ground cable and all is well. It's cheap and worth a try.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  3. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    New solenoid? The Delco-type solenoids are a typical issue. Common replacement part (because they wear out much faster than the starter).

    Standard SS200 or the premium WVE - 1971 JEEP CJ5 3.7L 225cid V6 Starter Solenoid | RockAuto

    This is something I'd suggest you replace with new to test. If that's not the problem, you'll have a trail spare.
     
  4. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    Solenoid hasn't been replaced yet. Also, all of these replacement solenoids look different than mine. They show 4 terminals but mine only has two.
     
  5. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    It's either not a Delco starter, or you need to look closer. The "hollow" terminal goes to the starter. "S" is for start, and the big post is for the battery. I expect the "R" terminal is not used if there's no such terminal on your current solenoid. Electrically, the minimum number of terminals you need is three plus chassis ground. You can't make the circuit with fewer.
     
  6. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    So I have the main power from the battery, and a wire from the ignition, that's it. I'll grab a picture here in about 2 hours when I get back there.
     
  7. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    The solenoid connects directly to the starter motor. There is a tab sticking up from the motor and a screw that goes through it into the solenoid. That's a third connection. Look at it. The solenoid coil grounds to the starter and connects back to the battery negative. That makes four connections.

    The solenoid is a switch that connects the battery to the starter motor. That's two connections. There is an electromagnet (the solenoid coil) that both throws the drive forward and throws the motor switch. That's two more connections. Four connections.
     
  8. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    No. Ground for both the starter motor and the solenoid is through the Jeep. The engine, body and frame are all grounded. Electricity goes back to the battery through the steel of the Jeep. There is no ground wire.
     
  9. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    Okay, so here is what I have. I also just picked up a new connector for the small ignition wire, so don't mind the wire wrapped around the post.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    This is the replacement I can get from oreillys. It shows 4 terminals but I don't see how I would wire that with my current configuration
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    It's the same. Which aspect worries you? The little copper tube extends to the starter terminal. There will be an extra terminal labled "R" that you don't use.
     
  12. Aug 10, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    1'st is the battery known to be good
    2'nd have you tried the screwdriver starter trick or remoter starter button
     
  13. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    So if I have this right, the 4 terminal solenoid will work in place of the 3 terminal. I'll just have to swap over the copper tube and then leave one of the terminals unused
     
  14. Aug 10, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    Battery is a year old, and reading right at 12 volts. A little low, but has been enough to start the jeep up until I removed the starter to repair the wiring. Also had my truck hooked up to give it a bit more juice
     
  15. Aug 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Voltage reading tells you very little. It's current that runs the starter motor. Have it load tested at your local parts store.
     
  16. Aug 10, 2021
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Yes, that is correct.
    In your first picture you can see the R cast into the end of the solenoid but there is no terminal and related internal components on your starter solenoid. The replacement part has those components, just leave the R terminal unused on the replacement part.

    Test the solenoid by jumping the terminals by using a screwdriver as Ron said.
    Have the battery load tested as Tim said.
    The resting voltage of your battery should be above 12.6 volts. A 12 volt lead / acid automotive battery with a resting voltage of 12 volts is 50% discharged.
     
  17. Aug 13, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    So I replaced the solenoid, wired it like the original and now I get absolutely nothing when turning the key. Dash lights up, but no click or attempt to start.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Aug 13, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    take a screwdriver from battery lug on solenoid touch the S terminal
     
  19. Aug 13, 2021
    Rob71246

    Rob71246 New Member

    Northwest Florida
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    I did that right before it got dark. I forgot to have the key on so all it did was spark a few times and then nothing
     
  20. Aug 13, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    sparked a few time and nothing . still sounds like bad Battery
    light don't draw the amps a starter will
    check ground from battery to engine block
    also frame ground on block to frame . usually strap/cable on motor mount
     
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