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Fino's Sbc Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Oct 30, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    You get what you inspect, not what you expect, Ron
     
    Fireball likes this.
  2. Oct 30, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    20 k it probably would have done that as it sat on the stand...
     
  3. Oct 30, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I know...I probably should have just tried running it as was and used it until it blew up completely....
     
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  4. Oct 30, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    ignorance is bliss in this case....your help is appreciated, but my already frustrated mindset does not appreciate the soul crushing snark...
     
  5. Oct 30, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    It wasn't my intension to demean or offend
     
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  6. Oct 30, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    cheers - I'll do my best to complain less....at this point, there is no avoiding the engine is not useable as is....time to create a better plan...
     
  7. Oct 30, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Pulled the main bearing caps - from my limited experience, the main bearing shells look like they will probably need replaced....
    front cap:
    [​IMG]

    2nd cap:
    [​IMG]

    3rd - you can also see the grey cleavite fluid on the cap bolts and the unique smell that accompanies it - reminds me of when the 225 v6 died....
    [​IMG]

    4th:
    [​IMG]

    rear cap:
    [​IMG]

    To replace these shells requires removing the crank I assume....so guessing that means removing the connecting rods - time to read up on these steps....
     
  8. Oct 30, 2020
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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  9. Oct 30, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    No problem, the bearings passed some trash, other wise not terrible. When you see copper it's not good. You don't have to remove the crank to change the bearings. I usually look at #1 main bearing to determine if there's an oiling problem, as it's furthest from the oil pump. Bearing size and date should be on the back of the shell. Ron
     
  10. Oct 31, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Ok - I see how this is done - the pistons/rods are removed out the top of the block (downwards when flipped on the stands) and the crank comes out last.
    Wondering if I should remove the piston/rods to inspect?
    If I were to replace the main bearing shells - I would need to know if the crank has been ground. From my questionable measurements - it looks like the crank is still at oem 2.45" journal specs. Would there be any indication on the back of the bearing shell to help verify?
     
  11. Oct 31, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Yes, the bearing shell will have the size on it. I like Clevite 77 bearings. Do NOT buy King bearings. The bearings could be rolled in if you don't want to pull the crank and rod/piston assemblies.
     
  12. Oct 31, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    With the crap on the bearings I think you might need to pull the oil galley plugs and clean them out with a rifle brush.

    I'm thinking I would pull the rod caps and push the piston to tdc. If they fall out they need rings. but if they take effort to move call it good. I feel they loose some spring in the rings if you mess with them too much.
    once they are out it's going to become a full rebuild.
     
  13. Oct 31, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    your going through all this trouble
    I would have block machined and cam bearing done
    last engine I did was in my hoopty ford ranger
    had the engine long blocked . didn't want to mess with tearing it all the way down
    one piston had a hole in it . and pieces in pan
     
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  14. Oct 31, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I agree, you're already this far.
     
  15. Oct 31, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    unless there is a ridge at the top of the bore....is there any way to inspect rings (basically see that they are not broken) without removing from the cylinder bore?
    The walls look good, but no idea on how out of round or taper issues there might be....Don't have the proper tool for measuring inside the cylinder bore....
     
  16. Oct 31, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    If a ring is broken it won't have as much resistance. If it overheated the rings could Also weaken. There should be a firm drag. A coat of engine oil should be wiped away evenly and not leak out.

    I beleave the compression tests indicate the cyls to keep an eye on.
     
  17. Oct 31, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    cylinder bore tamper has a lot to do with boring the block. Tampered bore = ring sealing issues. Normally will score the bore. Ron
     
  18. Oct 31, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    If there isn't a ridge at the top of the bore and you can see the honing marks, you can consider the cylinders themselves good enough for what you're after.

    As for the rings, a compression check would be the right way to test them. Jw60's info is good for checking without removing the pistons. With a good light, you can probably look into the gap around the piston and see if the top rings are broken or have excessive gaps. Really the right way to check the rings is to pull the pistons, remove the rings, and check the gaps in the cylinders (if they aren't broken), But like everything else, if you do that, you should just buy new rings since they aren't expensive.

    On a good note, with new rings, bearings, cam, lifters and your re-done heads, you have a nearly fully rebuilt engine that should last a long time for not a lot of money.

    If the cylinders look good, I don't think I'd bother with the full block machining others are suggesting. That might mean new pistons and definitely means lots of labor costs.
     
  19. Oct 31, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Just thinking aloud....I 'might' be willing to take an empty block to a machine shop for tanking (I am also worried about plugged oil galleys) and honing of the cylinders (guess they would also check the deck as well) and install new cam bearings....Could then use new rings on the old pistons, re-use the rods etc....Not sure if the crank would get work or not - maybe let the machine shop take a look at that. New rod and main bearing install myself, new cam, lifters and timing kit.....I have some pricing sheets from the machine shop so will work up a cost estimate....Of course, then we are back in the discussion of is it worth it to spend that money on the bottom end with the heads as they are - and the machine work on the heads (or straight aftermarket replacement) is in the $700 range.....Minimum cost estimate is basically just new cam, lifters and timing kit ($150).....Also have to keep in mind once this is done, I need to save budget for a new clutch, new power steering bracket (and maybe pump), probably new water pump, and possibly new valve covers....haven't disassembled the oil pump yet so that might be salveagable, or maybe another $30....Thinking I could possibly sell the shorty headers and use the old rams horn manifold to save a few bucks...Guessing no one wants the EGR q-jet and not sure about the EGR spread bore intake either....

    Going to pull a couple of rod caps to take a look - maybe test the movement of the piston in the cylinder.....After checking the 'wiggle' or play of the pistons in the cylinder bore, I am less concerned than I was yesterday....all 8 are about the same, and its most noticeable at TDC for all of them - so maybe that is a concern about the cylinder bore wear, but it also means its equal across the board. I was never able to a compression test - couldn't figure out how to do it on the stand, and the leak down test was equally bad for all the cylinders. But there was no way to warm the engine up to operating temp, so it was done cold.

    Have an appt in a bit today, then if the weather stays nice and warm, have some exterior house trim and shutter painting to finish - so may not get to too much with it today.
     
  20. Oct 31, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    This sounds like a good plan, if the condition of the engine will let you get away with it.
    I had a similar idea with my son's 302...now we're about $1600 into that engine and everything has been reconditioned or repl aced.
     
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