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New EFI Option - Looks Like 3 Good Players Now

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Warloch, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Dec 17, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I have been meaning to update this thread. I am ready to explore the addition of a crank trigger to my Howell system.
    Before I call Howell and ask them if they can point me toward a hall effect type sensor that will produce a signal that the GM computer can read....... Can I measure the signal voltages at the ecm input port with a multimeter? I'm thinking probing the ECM -RPM input terminal with the engine running? Ive searched the web to find what the desired GM ecm input voltage is but haven't had any luck.
     
  2. Dec 17, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member 2020 Sponsor

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    When I talked to FiTech, I was told I need a "Square Wave Signal" for RPM, I think I got the term right. I have a Buick NOS Odd-fire HEI Distributor for my Jeep. The tech told me, the big cap GM distributor will send out the right signal. Checking more into this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
  3. Dec 17, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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  4. Dec 18, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member 2020 Sponsor

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  5. Dec 18, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    So - I just talked to FiTech to help Steve out... Here is the summary of our discussion:

    • The 39001 2bbl 400HP is a brand new system and does not share components with the older 4bbl 30003 400HP system.
    • The Force Fuel 50004 replaces the old Fuel Commander as it was made by Hyper Fuel who they don't partner with any longer.
    • As long as the tach signal is a square wave from the HEI, their system will handle it fine. There was a filter in my neighbors kit for this I believe, I know I have one on the EZ-EFI setups. I specifically asked about the Odd Fire motor and he again said it would work.
    • CAM will not matter - self tune system will adjust for that.
    Again - I'll state that I really do not believe the crank sensor is needed for the systems that state the square wave from a HEI system works... So far it's been fine on the 3 brands I've used and seen installed. Only Holley needed the crank sensor and they specifically state they do not work with Odd Fire motors.
     
    Steve's 70-5 likes this.
  6. Dec 18, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Please note - that discussion and information is 20 years old... Many things have changed since then and I talked to affordable injection when I started looking into EFI for the 225s.
     
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  7. Dec 18, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Would you mind posting a minute or so long video of one of your systems idling? I'd like something to compare my Howell system too.
     
  8. Dec 18, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Here is the first EZ-EFI install I did.... FAST EZ-EFI Initial Startup I believe.

    I'll pull some off the others later, but everything has their winter blankets on right now.
     
  9. Dec 20, 2020
    Mjragan

    Mjragan Member

    socal-Simi Valley
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    In post #118 in this thread there is a scope capture of the RPM signal into the ECM taken from a TBI 1995 GMC PU with a 350 K motor. The RPM input into the ECM is a 5volt square wave signal, you can see the relation of the secondary ignition firing the RPM signal into the ECM and the injectors firing. This is the same signal your system uses, as you can see in the capture the ECM fires the injectors at the falling edge of the RPM pulse.
     
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  10. Dec 21, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Mike,
    Thank you for bring that post to my attention!
    Do you seen any reason why I couldn't install a sensor with a 5v output to read 3 nodes bolted through the balancer holes? This would then feed straight into the ECM.
     
    Jrobz23 likes this.
  11. Dec 21, 2020
    Mjragan

    Mjragan Member

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    Yes I’m sure it can be done.
    Before I go any farther I just want to say I’m very happy with my TBI setup, it is reliable and runs great. With that said a smart person would leave it alone and not mess with it, My problem is I’m not smart, I’ve been throwing the idea of firing the injections sequentially using a toothed sensor ring for a while. In post #119 I
    Kind of rambled on about it.
     
  12. Dec 21, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I think you are over thinking this. Go back and re-read Warloch's post (#125). You are using throttle body injection, not multiport injection. Sequential triggering of the two injectors that sit at the top of the intake manifold isn't going to make a difference.

    If you are using a halls effect sensor (3 wire sensor) with a 5 volt signal I think this would work. If you are using a VR sensor or reluctor (2 wire sensor) you could wire the sensor observing polarity (G pin negative, W pin positive) to you existing HEI module. This would provide the correct square wave pulse to the ecm. Be sure to use a shielded twisted pair lead for this.

    In both of your cases, I think this is a lot of unnecessary work. Miragan has said his engine runs great. Norcal69, Howell just needs you to set your variables (fuel pressure, timing) to their specifications, a good log of your engine running through all ranges and then provide to you an updated chip. That's their responsibility to you.
     
  13. Dec 23, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

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    The nice part about a crank pickup is it enables more options. More is better in terms of long term community sustainability.
     
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  14. Sep 2, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash Blind and Dirty 2020 Sponsor

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    I want to buy EFI for my 231 but just can’t seem to pull the trigger. Anyone have any new experience to share?
     
  15. Sep 2, 2021
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman

    Maryland
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    This is what im looking at. Sniper EFI 2GC - Holley if the odd fire is bitchy about it i have a nice even fire for it to go on.
     
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  16. Sep 2, 2021
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    The sniper 2300 is is system that is recommended by the guy who helped me sort out my Howell system.
     
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  17. Sep 3, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash Blind and Dirty 2020 Sponsor

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    Since I have a choice of a 2 or 4 barrel intake any reason to not get a 4 barrel EFI? (Thinking I could more easily swap to any motor in the future)
     
  18. Sep 3, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    No reason not to, but there is no practical reason for it either. Carburetors use vacuum as both a signal and as a power source. With EFI, vacuum is just a signal and only has to be high enough for accurate measurement. 4V carbs were invented to provide high vacuum at part or low throttle. This provides sufficient vaccum for accurate fuel metering at all throttle positions. Even the GM Rochester throttle body for the 454 is a 2V, just a bigger 2V. There's no reason for the smaller primaries when the fuel is metered electrically. A 4V throttle body is for appearance only.

    I recall from reading the Holley literature, the 4V is rated for a higher HP than the 2V. I presume this only relates to the injector size. You don't want the injectors so small that you run out of fuel at WOT, but you also want to size the injectors so they have a significant duty cycle at part throttle. I recall reading about this in the Megasquirt documents. Too sparse a duty cycle and you'd have poor metering, just like a too-big carburetor, I presume.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  19. Sep 3, 2021
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    What Tim said above.
    The Holley 2300 kit is rated at 580 CFM.
    That's more than enough CFM for any small V8 in the 289-350 size range GM.... Ford.... AMC.... Dodge. Unless you are building a jeep for high RPM race application there is no need for the 4bbl. Keep in mind, Your average 350 chevy from the wrecking yard is going to be in the 180-210 HP range. If you stepped up to the later model Vortec 350 you would be 255 HP (this engine comes with a decent factory efi system). I'm only using GM engines as examples because they are the most common swap, but the same general information goes for Ford, AMC, Dodge....
    Any engine flavor, the 2bbl Sniper will supply air and fuel just fine for jeep duty. If you have high rpm racing plans in the future, then buy a larger system down the road.
     
  20. Sep 3, 2021
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I would just generally say the 4-bbl setup is overkill for something like a 225. Hell, it's overkill for some small V8's, in my opinion. I'm sure it would work just fine, it just seems a bit silly to do, to me.
     
    Norcal69 likes this.
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