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Picked Up A 71 For A Buddy Of Mine......

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Norcal69, Jul 25, 2016.

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  1. May 17, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Wanna sell the old bell crank mount?
     
  2. May 17, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Pm me your address and I'll flat rate box it right to you just for the story!
     
  3. May 17, 2023
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Yea, I didn’t think Roy was a “Restoration” guy.
     
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  4. May 17, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    It's really not that interesting. The '68 still has Ross steering that's working well enough for now but it has the small shaft bell crank on it. The small shaft bell crank uses the same bellcrank and bearings as the large one but has bearing inner race/collar that makes up the difference. The collar and shaft in the small shaft rebuild kit aren't a tight fit and it allows the rebuilt assembly to rock a degree or so, ...even if you really reef on the retaining nut. This is just for a quick fix. I don't care enough about the Jeep to Saginaw swap it. This is the only real slop in the steering. Other than a little slop in the wheel, it goes straight as an arrow down the highway without any caster shims at all.

    The large shaft must have been a '69 model year change. My '68 has the small and my '69 has the large.

    Large shaft on the left. Small shaft with the race/collar on the right:
    [​IMG]

    I wouldn't use it for rock crawling like FinoCJ, but a rebuilt Ross steering system is fine for a stock-ish Jeep doing mild offroading and running around town.
     
    Ol Fogie, vtxtasy, Stakebed and 3 others like this.
  5. May 17, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    because you don't want the difficult manual steering, or because you think it has a fatal flaw offroad? I find the slop due to all the wear points to be the fatal flaw - but that is more of a concern at highway speed than off-road. I used to think I'd rebuild mine and use a tapered bearing at the bellcrank....but now that either a locker or LSD is going in the front, I think its gotta be a power set-up....still not sure how to fit the steering shaft through the front dump exhaust, motor mount and front cross-member.....
     
    Dwins1, Stakebed and Buildflycrash like this.
  6. May 17, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Just too hard to steer without power assist. Howard's setup would probably be OK.
     
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  7. May 17, 2023
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
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    If you figure that one out, I'd like to know.
     
  8. May 17, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    My dad managed to do it with his GPW. Front dump V6 exhaust, Saginaw steering, and a PTO winch no less. He has a low profile U-joint next to the fuel pimp and pillow block over the motor for the steering. Another pillow block under the motor mount for the PTO shaft. There are some pictures in this mini-build thread I made for the Jeep here: Dad's Flatfender

    It's impossible to get good pictures because there is so much stuff crammed into a small space.
     
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  9. May 18, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Went back to the well of Quaker Oats surplus steel yesterday.
    This time it was for a piece of 2"x4"x1/4" wall box tubing that would be transformed into a ram assist axle tube mount.


    [​IMG]


    Lots of sharpie drawing, sparks and blue lightening later we have this crude bracket!
    I say it's crude because it is pretty simple compared to the one I built for my jeep.....
    This one is good enough for Steve.


    [​IMG]


    I had been feeling like I was doing more than necessary on this jeep..... and making to big of project out of it. I mean I am basically reworking the entire thing.......
    Had a bit of a pants pooper last night......
    While reinstalling the steering box and fiddling with the steering shaft the universal joint up by the steering column broke!
    That was a good wake up call......
    Don't trust anything on this jeep unless I have had my hands on it and given it a thorough inspection.
    I yanked the old steering shaft assembly out and threw it in the scrap bin. The only good part of the old assembly was the universal joint at the steering box.... a made in USA Borgeson unit!
    After some head scratching and digging I came up with a new setup. Actually.... a really nice new steering shaft assembly comprised of gently used and new made in USA parts.
    Flaming River 1" DD to 3/4" DD universal joint at the steering column.
    Borgeson 3/4"DD to 3/4" DD universal joint near the engine mount.
    FK 3/4" greasable support heim mounted through the engine mount.
    Couple gently used pieces of 3/4" DD shaft.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. May 19, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Stalled out a little bit yesterday and didn't get quite as much done as I hoped I would.
    Steering shaft installed.


    [​IMG]


    The front frame rails on these jeeps are so flimsy..... I boxed these frame rails with 3/16" plate back when Steve first got the jeep. When I was removing the stock front shackle hangers I could see the rails moving around when tapping a chisel in between the frame rail and shackle mount.
    I decided to add a cross member between the front frame rails, behind the bumper.
    The frame material is so soft, knock out punch easily pulls a perfect 2" hole through the frame.


    [​IMG]


    Steering box buttoned up.
    New cross member tube is not welded in yet.
    Cross member tube is 1-3/4"x.095, sized specifically for a reason to be known in a week or so.


    [​IMG]
     
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  11. May 19, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    Even money that tube is for something that's found on your rig :cool:
     
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  12. May 19, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Something similar in function...... however what I am putting together is several hundred bucks cheaper than the name brand product.
    I'll spill the tea once it's all together and functional.
     
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  13. May 20, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Worked two front's yesterday.
    First was progress on the ram assist steering. On my jeep I elected to drop allot of money on the PSC compact ram.
    Got a feeling that Steve won't care that I bought the much cheaper Trail Gear ram and made it to look like the PSC ram.

    Out of the box Trail Gear ram.


    [​IMG]



    Trail Gear ram after some of my famously crude lathe work!
    We were able to shorten the assembly up about 1-1/2" overall. It is now essentially the same size as the PSC compact ram, at about 1/2 the price too!


    [​IMG]



    With the ram assist project on hold until the front axle is swapped I moved on to the rear suspension.
    Quick refresher on the terrible Rocky Road rear shackle angles. See the scrapes and dents in the side of the fuel tank? That's from the numerous shackle inversion incidents!


    [​IMG]


    First the RR front spring mounts were removed. The factory spring mount is located under the RR bracket.
    The factory spring mount must be removed from the frame in order to get the RR bracket in the correct location.


    [​IMG]



    The new Ruff Stuff rear shackles were installed.
    Please ignore the bushing issues for the time being. Those bushings were supplied by the hacks at Rocky Road.
    Proper Old Man Emu bushings will be installed when the axle swap takes place!


    [​IMG]



    Super scientific axle location adjustment method!
    With the brackets on the springs, the frame resting on the springs and vehicle weight..... I first pushed the rear axle back a couple inches farther than necessary.
    Ratchet straps were connected to the brackets and used to pull the axle forward until the desired combination of shackle angle and tire-wheel well centering was achieved.
    The rear spring brackets ended up going 1-1/2" to the rear!



    [​IMG]



    The new shackle angle is pretty much 10 degrees toward the rear. I was hoping to get more, but the tire would be too far back in the wheel well opening.
    It is far better than the 25 degrees in the opposite location!


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Once the jeep is operable it will go outside for a forklift flex test and measuring for bump stops.
    After taking the time to fix this Rocky Road kit I feel even stronger that they are a bunch of lazy hacks.
    The bracket locations will never produce acceptable shackle angles. In order to install the spring mounts in the proper locations, the stock spring mounts must be removed.
    If Rocky Road was serious about getting their product rite they would remove the stock mounts and use the holes from the stock spring mount rivets as locator holes to ensure that the customer got the bracket in the proper location. This would only add a couple hours to the install time, but produce a far better product .
    The customer would have to cut the old mount off and use a punch to remove the remains of the rivet. This would give the most accurate mounting location (.....well as accurate as jeep built the frames....) and get all of the old bracket out of the way.
     
  14. May 20, 2023
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    My guess is its for a big AntiRock sway Bar.
     
  15. May 22, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Weekend progress.....
    I set out to swap axles yesterday but quickly stalled out on other repairs discovered.
    U bolt nuts were all frozen in place, my 1/2" impact wasn't budging them so the cut off wheel lopped em off in short order.
    Guessing that was a result of the beach driving!
    Brakes tied up and out of the way.
    The wheel bearings feel good.... they will get re packed with grease before reassembly.


    [​IMG]


    With the axle removed an issue was instantly noticed.
    The main eye bushings on all 4 leaf springs appeared to be completely worn out, letting the springs wobble all around.
    Once the first spring was removed I discovered that the problem was not that the bushings were sloppy, but that the bushing sleeves were not tight in the spring eye.




    In order to get the bushing out, I had to drill around the inside to relieve the pressure. No amount of beating on the bushing with a hammer and punch would even budge it!
    Once the bushing was removed I took the sleeve back to the spring.....



    I know exactly what caused this problem..........
    Rocky Road :poo: kit strikes again!
    Everyone who has purchased a RR kit with Old Man Emu springs has had issues installing the bushings. They are a real fight to install even with a hydraulic press. You can beat and bang on em, swear at em and eventually take a belt sander to em..... they are still hard to install. Every build thread mentions how much of a PITA the bushings are....
    The bushings are so tight that they will not rotate inside the spring bushing sleeve. Eventually something has to give and the sleeve starts rotating in the spring eye. The bushing never even moved enough to wear the paint out of the inside of the sleeve, the interior of the sleeves look brand new.
    The reason they are a fight to install is because the Old Man Emu springs cannot be used with standard YJ spring bushings! OME springs are made to the nearest whole metric measurement. The springs have smaller diameter eyes and are slightly narrower than 2.5" wide.
    I'm not sure if the crew at Rocky Road is too cheap or just plain dumb...... but why not just use the correct bushings and save your customer the headache! :censored:
    This jeep had a little over 27k miles on it when the RR kit was installed, as of today it has 28,429 miles that's less than 1,500 miles on this kit.
    While the proper OME bushings are not cheap, $31 per spring, I can assure you that they are much easier to install and do not wear out your spring eyes! I have 5X more miles on my springs with the proper bushings and have zero issues with the bushing sleeves spinning in the spring eyes.

    Most of my afternoon went toward repairing the spring eye sleeves. I welded 6 stripes across them, then ground the stripes down until the sleeve was a lite press fit into the spring eye.
    Once that was completed I moved on to my scheduled program of replacing the spring center pins. It was almost guaranteed that the spring center pins would be bent, I was so confident that they would be bent I bet myself a cold beer!
    Sure enough!


    [​IMG]

    That was just the first one! On of the rears was so bent, I'm surprised it wasn't broken!
    All center pins were replaced with grade 9 allen head bolts.

    Next I introduced Steve's jeep to its new rear axle!
    This axle was rebuilt with a really tight power loc and only used for a season or so before being pulled. It would chirp tires when making a tight turn in a parking lot.


    [​IMG]


    Comparing the full float axle shafts supplied by Herm to the flanged full float shafts I bought from Timsresort.
    Wendys actually called looking for the beef!
    The flanged units are full diameter until just under the flange, to allow for run out in the hub.
    This was a real bright spot in the afternoon of jeep work!


    [​IMG]


    Here is where it was left last night, big list of parts on order this morning.
    I am beginning to feel the pressure of getting it together and all the bugs worked out before July 9.
    There's a couple boxes of abandoned fuel injection parts sitting on the shelf too.....


    [​IMG]
     
  16. May 22, 2023
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    My jeep hates me and would have immediately jumped off those jack stands the moment I got anywhere near them.
     
  17. May 22, 2023
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    I’m going to have a set of those moser axle shafts made can you give me the measurements on them. from end of shaft to face of flange and distance between the flange bolt holes center to center .the diameter should be 1.45” thanks if you already installed them don’t worry about it thanks
     
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  18. May 22, 2023
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
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    I've had some other interest in those shafts, so I am going to find the Moser order that has the info and share it with you guys.
     
  19. May 23, 2023
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    I would also like a copy of the specs for those flanged shafts. Are those shafts for a offset tapered housing?

    Kyle, you are making incredibly fast progress on all those upgrades. I wouldn't have the confidence to get this deep into a rebuild with only a few month till the trip. Did you decide if your running oil bath wheel bearings or greased with a shaft seal?
     
  20. May 23, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Yes, these shafts are for a offset tapered axle housing converted to full float with 19 spline axles.
    If you have a 30 spline diff you need to order a set of billet spindles from Richard Imholt.
    Both of my setups utilize a seal and grease packed floater bearings.
    Thank you for the compliment.
    Fortunately allot of the work I'm doing is similar to what I have done to my jeep in the past. It definitely helps to not have to reinvent the wheel.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2023
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