Power Steering Redux

Tarry,

Thanks for the help a million times over.

I did grind out the crack with a cutting wheel as it was through the frame.

The welds on the outside may be a bit misleading. I was able to follow along the crack perfectly and then I ran a second bead, which might be what you are looking at.

On the inside, I will try to grind those out and either try again or see if my friend can bring his welder to my house.

I agree with you on doing it right the first time. I do not want to have to tear this all down again and do it all over again. It was a PITA. ha

I have spacers that a friend made up at his machine shop to fit inside the frame rail to prevent crushing. they aren't in any of the pictures, but they fit perfectly inside the frame. The holes closest to the end of the frame rails are actually for my bumpers and are 1/2" bolts. The holes back a bit are drilled a hair over 7/16" for the steering box bolts. So it may be an illusion of them looking bigger than they should be.

Thanks again.

Now to figure out how to fit an angle grinder inside the frame rail. Might have to borrow a die grinder or larger 7" grinder.

 

A die grinder will work...........just be gentle with the metal removal with a large grinder........you want to keep as much of the original metal in place and just grind or V out the crack and clean up the area adjacent to the repair.........well turn you into a welder here sooner or later!

 

Terry,

While I am waiting for time to work on this again, I am doing some thinking.

Thinking about how you said you boxed in your frame all the way to the end. I am thinking I should do the same. The only problem is, my bumper mounts to the frame rails with 1/2" bolts on the leading edge and just in front of the spring hangar. So, in order to box through that area, I need to figure out how to mount the bumper.

Will I lose strength if I use spacers (similar to the steering box) and run the bolt through the frame to the plate I will add as compared to bolted just to the frame rail with a shorter bolt and no spacer? Here is another "to scale" drawing (haha) that may help explain what I am talking about:

 

In this picture I used a .375 thick gear mounting plate and then forward of that .125 to box that in..........or 3/16" would also be fine.

If your concerned about your thru bolts for your bumper , you could either thread some 1" bar stock by say 3/4" thick or something similar to that and just weld those on to the inside of the frame rail to act as captured nuts. Blind nuts are just as acceptable as having a bolt and nut going through the frame with no loss of strength.

All your trying to do is add some strength to that flange that is cracking due to the stress that it see's from the spring hanger.

 

Just so I understand correctly, the thru bolt with spacer is not at structural as a welded nut (made from bar stock) hidden on the inside of the frame rail?

Another thought I had, would be to use a hole saw to cut a hole large enough for a socket to fit through in the event I needed to remove the bumper. When not in use, I could close the holes with grommets or similar.

I guess "my" design is a little different from yours. I am running one piece of 3/16" metal for the entire frame horn. For the mounting plate, I am using the McRuff designed plate that I had a friend machine years ago.

I will also add support gussets as you did with your plate.

 

I have a small mig welder with the same amperage limit as yours. I preheated the base metal prior to welding. Not sure if this is a recommended practice but the welds looked good and the penetration appeared to have been done with a higher amp welder.

 

Would this not be the same as you have now? With the only difference being now you have access to the threaded nut................with the welded nut in place it's basically the same as your still clamping it to the single outside .125" frame rail. A piece of 1018 CR steel threaded and welded to the chassis if it contains more thread contact would be stronger than a standard nut.
Not saying what I'm doing is any better than what you have planned.............just make it work!

 

Thanks! That is an interesting idea. I will research the method more.

Sorry for the miscommunication. I see how the threaded stock welded to the frame is the same as my current setup. I was asking for the recommendation between that and a longer bolt through a spacer sandwiched between the frame.

I am going to look at more pictures of your setup and others with bumpers to see what would work best.

Thanks again!

 

I looked at your set up here:



This looks pretty nice and I have some 2x4 tubing left over from my bumpers. I could do something similar. I will cover the rear bolt for my bumper mount, but I could weld a spacer inside that could allow me to use a longer bolt in the rear.

 

Ok! Finally had time to get out and work on the jeep.

I ground out the old welds and laid in a good bead. I am not sure if the metal was cleaner this time around, but the welds looked much better.


Once that was done I cleaned it all up as best I could and mounted the bumper up to figure out where the nuts should go for the bumper. I am going to box the entire frame horn and I liked the idea of having a hidden nut for a clean look.

I tried to figure out a way to use bar stock as Terry mentioned, but without a drill press or any machining equipment I realized there was no way I could ensure a perfectly aligned hole when drilling. So, I welded in some grade 8 nuts instead. Since they are for 1/2" bolts, there is plenty thread to tighten to.

Once those were welded in, I painted the inside with POR as it will be sealed up and I don't want rust in there.



I thought it had dried when I used the die grinder to smooth out some metal nearby, so some metal filings got stuck in the paint... Of course. I blame it on a small garage.

I put another coat of paint on over it to cover the filings and painted the inside of the plate to box the frame. I realize that some of the paint will burn off when I weld. I just want to make sure the frame is solid for years to come. Once it is all said an done, I will spray the inside with a coating of some oil that bike builders use to spray the insides of steel tubes.

Here is the plate on the frame:



With the plate on, I clamped everything up and decided to start the mocking process with the steering box. Here is where I think makes the most sense:



I don't think the shackle will hit the plate and I need to make sure the box will clear the shackle bolt. However, this is exactly 1.5" forward from the old mount.


While I was waiting for things to dry, I decided to figure out a way to build in the rear body mounts on the rear cross member that were cut off by the previous owner. I am going to run these off the rear bumper's mounts that bolt on the frame where the cross member would go. Originally I was going to go with a 1/8" piece of steel flat, but given how much that weighed, I decided to try something else.

Here is my attempt at bending some 3/4" tube:



To bend it, I used a jig saw to cut a 2x4 to the right radius, then I clamped them in a vise and bent the tubing around. Making sure the welded seam was on the side of the curve, it was actually fairly easy to bend it to the right dimensions. To my surprise, it didn't kink or fold.

On the scrap that was left from the tube, I marked where the centers would be for a brace and drilled them out with a 1/2" bit. That gave them the perfect curvature to fit snug against the tube.

I will add some gussets on the bottom where this welds to the bumper to help support the weight. If nothing else, it was a fun little side project.

 

With the box mounted, here is a picture of the clearance (the tie rod looks bent, but it is not. Also, there is way more clearance to the shock than appears):



and the box itself:



As I do this, is there anything I should take into account? I am going to have the trim the grill about 1/4" where the power steering hose connects, but that seems to be the only clearance issue I can think of. The shackle could hit the box mount, but it would need to invert, or get close to inverting to do so.

I could move it all backwards about 1/8" of an inch or so if you think that would make the most sense.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

I would move the box as far forward as possible. I did on my latest project and it seems to be a lot easier to work with. I had trouble with the hose routing and more forward solved that issue. If your shackles invert you have real issues, so I dont think you need to worry about that option. You just want to make sure the shackle clears the box or mount at full droop.

 

Thanks. I don't think I can move it forward much more otherwise it will impede the shackle movement.

Based on what I have read and what you said, I think I have the optimal spot. Hopefully I can work on it before the weekend. I am also in the middle of a kitchen renovation. I just got the counters on last night, so my jeep will have to wait.

 

Haven't had a chance to do much else, but was thinking that now might be a good time to think about winch mounts. I don't currently own a winch, or have a timeline to put one on, but it is something I want to do eventually.

I am thinking that the best bet is to make brackets now out of 2x4 tubing similar to what Posi did here, makes the most sense:



Does anyone know what the measurements are for the Warn winch mount? I am wondering if that would work, then i can avoid building/hiring someone to build one for me.

 

True. Should have been more specific. I am most likely going to run a M8000 or similar. Not a 8274.

So I guess I am talking about the 13910 winch plate.

 

Thanks Focker! Do you know what the dimensions are for the brackets that bolt to the frame?

 

Ahh...will do. Thanks for the help anyway.