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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Jul 20, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 That guy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    upload_2023-7-20_8-37-38.png
     
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  2. Jul 20, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I wish there was another option for a full locker for a D27 (guess you could weld the gears to a spool), but there is no selectable option......I did build a PL for it with new clutches etc, but going to try this route first. This is an almost trivially easy install. If I can't stand the 'auto' locking, then I can try going with the PL - that requires pulling the R&P off the current case and swapping over to the PL case - which means new carrier bearings (and thus new pinon bearing) and going through some R&P set-up (just like I did the the Eaton in the rear). So if this totally sucks, its a couple hours to remove and be back as it was, leaves the option open for the PL, and if it blows up the D27, then that will motivate for a complete axle swap and selectable locker. As for the steering, its all part of the trial and error and seeing what is the right combination.....The CJ has kind of been in a steady state without new build features for the past 5 years or so, and while that has been very capable and fun and allowed it to run some bucket list stuff (e.g. Rubicon, PS, Wheeler, HC, Chinamans etc), it also feels like its kind of been stuck at that plateau. I am ready to kind try and push it a bit further, so front traction is next....We'll see about TBI and suspension changes - heck, suspension could even involve trying to get a few more inches of wb and the dreaded comp cut! I still think the biggest limitation to ecj5s is the swb.....that cj6 fire jeep in the southeast would be SO sweet....
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2023
  3. Jul 20, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Had the PL in mine with manual steering for years, I always had sore fingers after a day on the trail.
    Nooooooo! :n:
     
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  4. Jul 20, 2023
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I installed a Lockrite in Steve's jeep before Rubicon.
    Granted I had power steering and ram assist......... but I never noticed it affecting driving, just lots more traction than Steve ever had.
     
  5. Jul 20, 2023
    jzeber

    jzeber Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor

    Morgan Hill, Ca
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    Don't you have a 4 speed too? 2 best mods I ever did were the Detroit locker in the rear and SM 465.
     
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  6. Jul 23, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Next up is a tie rod flip for the D27....I used the Rock Equipment flip sleeves from OK4wd. You have to ream out the top of the knuckle hole to create the taper needed for the TREs, and then you use a slightly wedged sleeve in the bottom of the knuckle to essentially fill-in the old taper. I am still using the Ross set-up with cross-over 1-piece tie rod, but just flipped the TRE's to the top of the knuckle. As discussed in some other thread recently, without a 2 hole knuckle on the passenger side, the passenger TRE is a double hole that accepts the 'drag link' from the bellcrank. The extra hole in the TRE also has to have the taper 'flipped' from one side to the other, as when everything moves up over the knuckle it flips over.

    Here is the starting point - not OEM, but a pretty decent upgrade from the OEM two separate tie-rod set-up.
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the TRE has a 'bend' in it that places the TRE kind of between the tie-rod and the drag link. When the TRE 'flips' to the top, that bend will be in the opposite direction, but the drag link connection still needs to be forward of the tie rod. My first thought was to try and use a commando TRE that has the bend in the opposite direction, but the taper flare is still to the front of the vehicle to accept the drag link....these pics from Sam at Parts Dude:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So when the Commando TRE 'flips' to the top of the knuckle, it will have the same bend as the CJ TRE......but the taper would still need to be reworked just the same as the the knuckles. So....it doesn't work out quite as well as I had hoped.....with everything on top, clearance with the shock became an issue (and these shock bodies are monotube and a bit smaller diameter than the typical double wall hydro shock):
    [​IMG]

    So, back to ream out and use the original TRE - the geometry of the configuration isn't quite as pleasing, but it works:
    [​IMG]

    The most difficult part for me was dealing with the steering alignment etc.....The OAL of the tie-rod needs to be a bit longer to account for how the TRE's fit into the knuckle - the knuckle holes are not 'vertical', and a bit further apart the top.
    [​IMG]

    I wasn't aware of this initially, otherwise I could have gotten the measurement needed and lengthened the tie rod and kept the alilgnment essentially fixed. I didn't figure it out until I put everything back together and recognized visually the amount of toe-in was way too much. Unfortunately, at that point, I had lost any reference to the original alignment, so basically I had to start over with a fresh alignment process. Its been awhile since I did such a thing, so the first time I made a mistake, so got to do everything yet again for a 3rd time!.....But I think I finally got it all good to go....I haven't driven it yet, so it may still end up at an alignment shop for measurements, but its close enough to at least test drive it a bit and see. The final geometry really raises the the linkage up out of the way, removes most of the drag link angle, which will help with bump steer, and hopefully make steering a bit easier. A two hole knuckle with the longer steering arm would be better in terms of steering effort, but this is an improvement over what I had.....
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
  7. Jul 23, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 That guy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Looks like all that is left is an oil pan skid for the 225 and t18.
     
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  8. Jul 23, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    Just watch that big rock on Iron Mike. Even with the flip it gets ya :whistle:
     
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  9. Jul 23, 2023
    vtxtasy

    vtxtasy oldbee 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Tucson, AZ
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    Good write up on the install. I like how you explained how the Commando TRE would not work with the forward mounted shocks. It
    looks like there is more room for the clamps. I wonder if the sleeves would benefit by having a sleeve retaining adhesive applied. These
    would also eliminate the need for a dropped pitman arm. I may have to do this. Instructions:
    https://www.jeepfan.com/reviews/retieflip/flipkitinstall.pdf
     
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  10. Jul 23, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Its not anywhere near something that I feel has to get done, but one of those days when I am fiddling with a non-essential project, I'd like to make some u-bolt spring plates like Kyle and Tomtom made that raise up the bolt ends for better clearance - or maybe go with some ubolt flip kit type thing. One day, need to redo/replace the cross-member mounted trans/TC skid - that might not get done until I figure out a trans swap (if I ever get to it).
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
  11. Jul 23, 2023
    vtxtasy

    vtxtasy oldbee 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Tucson, AZ
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    I saw a write up of using silicone to attach a piece of metal to the oil pan as a skid plate. No holes, welding or tearing of the pan.
    Seems pretty simple and quite strong. Spreads the load and gives cushioning.
     
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  12. Sep 3, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Its frame repair time.....as always, its worse and more complicated repairing than I was initially thinking/hoping.....At the moment, I've found 3 spots that have issues, but lets just start with these two:
    1) RR upper shock mount....
    [​IMG]

    This one has already had some work done....up close with a bit of cleaning shows the crack better, and not just in the weld between the top of the frame and shock mount, but you can see the left side has a horizontal crack down in the frame, and its below the top 'flange' of the frame rail (is that the correct term?).
    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the crack on the inside of the frame rail - obviously not just in the the weld between the two parts.....
    [​IMG]

    Plus, you can see there is additional prior damage...there are not the typical rivets holding the shock mount to the frame, but some nutted hex bolts, and there is a bunch of burned out/missing metal around the rivet locations.....
    [​IMG]

    Yup....so, its not going to be as easy as just grinding out some of the shock mount weld and re-welding.....do I try to remove the shock mount first and foremost (unbolt and grind out the welds)? that would allow some access to repair the frame? Access in the area on the inside is very tight....

    2) This is the frame crack on the passenger side right behind the front spring hanger mount....
    This one also has had some work done in the area - as you can see from the MIG wire pieces stuck to the frame etc....from the outside:
    [​IMG]

    from the inside of the frame rail....and yes that is the crack propagating across the bottom flange of the frame rail (or actually, it looks like it started there is propagating across and up...
    [​IMG]

    The bottom of the frame rail flange - you can see the crack right along the back edge of the spring hanger and then it walks forward under the hanger...
    [​IMG]

    So the more I look at this one, the more I think this one is really bad....the frame rail is basically cracked about halfway through....I was prepared for some basic crack repair, but this seems a bit more than I know what to do - other than go have a shot of whiskey
     
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  13. Sep 3, 2023
    Stakebed

    Stakebed Member

    Lake Co....
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    Take the body off the frame and bring it to me James. I'm in little Jeep repair mode with that M38a1. 20230828_183751.jpg

    20230828_183744.jpg

    20230901_182347.jpg
     
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  14. Sep 3, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    So basically, here is what I am thinking - going to follow how Chuck did the frame horn repair with me. I need to grind out and remove both the shock mount and the spring hanger. For the front spring hanger, it seems like I can then cut out the lower half of the frame rail and weld in a section of angle iron - that will repair both the side wall and the lower flange. Then weld the hanger back on. Then I will need to fishplate over the side. The tricky part is what to do to help support the bottom flange....at least the weld will not be immediately under the edge of the spring hanger, but the front one will be forward somewhere under the middle of the spring hanger, and the rear edge will be back a couple inches....I can extend the boxing as well? The rear shock one is basically the same but replacing the upper section with angle iron.....
     
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  15. Sep 3, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I've got about 6 weeks to get this done!.....If I had endless time, I'd pull the body and do it completely right, reverse the front shackles, figure out the T18 mount and replace some body panels......but I don't have that kind of time. Better to use and abuse than fix it too nice! But seriously, I didn't know TDK is just up the road from me - will give them a call just to see what they might have sitting around. Honestly, this does have me thinking about getting one of their frames, getting it done with shackle reversal and saggy mount etc.....I love these old jeeps, but I am not looking forward to constant frame repair if I keep using it hard.....I am already tired of fixing it as is!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
  16. Sep 3, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    See if they have 2 LOL!
     
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  17. Sep 3, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    A few years ago, I ripped one of the spring hangars right off my frame. Chuck welded in a new section of frame, fish plated the outside, and added a support on the inside. Maybe something like this will fix your frame.
    20230903_175046.jpg

    20230903_175130.jpg
     
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  18. Sep 3, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    off and running...err...cutting....shock mount removed and minimal section of frame cut out (you can see how much damage was on the top of the frame under the shock mount)....will have to decide how much more of the frame to take - but as you can see those funny features are the connections with the cross-member, so I am trying not to screw that up....I may not do this all nice and pretty, and heck it might not even be done well, but it can't be worse than what it was (I don't think.....hope?)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
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  19. Sep 3, 2023
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    it always gets uglier . before the finish repair (y)
     
  20. Sep 4, 2023
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    smaller cracks, I've used a small drill bit (1/8th or so), drilled the end of the crack, carved a V on some of the crack where accessible, then cranked up the heat and got some melty melty on, then ground it, and then fish plated or on sheet metal, welded a washer over it around the outside and the inside, if it was sheet metal on a corner, I just put a bend on the washer and welded it in... IDK if that's the right fix, but seemed good. No vibrations on the fixes yet to test, so I feel good so far :)
     
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