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My lengthy Borg warner T18 rebuild thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by wheelie, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Aug 31, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Let me start by asking for your patience, forbearance and knowledge to help me successfully rebuild my first transmission. The goal here is to combine the necessary parts from a Scout T18 (factory adapter, mainshaft and bearing retainer) with a Ford T18 from, what I was told was, a 1984 F-series 4x4. This later model Ford T18 has reverse in the over and down position, as opposed to earlier T18s where reverse was over and up.

    First some pictures, then to my first question, already.

    The Ford t18 as I received it, with tailshaft housing still attached.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Scout T18, with factory dana 20 adapter at the rear.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I decided to start with getting the necessary parts out of the Scout unit. I will only take this one down as far as I need to to get the parts I need out of it. It will also serve as a place to get my feet wet.

    So, I huffed the weighty Scout T18 onto the bench, after draining it's blood. I shifted it into neutral and removed the shift tower assembly and set it aside. I then removed the output gear from the rear of the unit.

    Moving front, I removed the front output bearing retainer, exposing the 2 snap rings and bearing.

    [​IMG]

    First question. I gently started prying the front bearing out, after removing the snap rings (flat tipped external snap ring pliers were a big help, thanks for the tip). I quickly noticed all the gears and the shaft were also coming along. Is it okay to let all that stuff come out with the bearing, at this point or, is now the time when I need a bearing puller, to separate the bearing from the shaft, leaving the shaft and gears in place?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  2. Aug 31, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Te bearing needs removed from the shaft, input and output. You will likely need a puller as they are normally a press fit. If you cannot grab the snap ring groove with your puller, reinstall the outside snap ring back on the bearing and pull against that. I prefer a bearing splitter/puller combination as it grabs around the bearing much better.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  3. Aug 31, 2013
    piffey263

    piffey263 Active Member

    Yreka, CA
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    Wheelie, I will be watching this :)

    I want to switch to the t-18 myself and hopefully get away with not buying AA adapter
     
  4. Sep 1, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    OK. Thanks Nick. Anyone have a picture of the type of puller I should buy? I assume I need something with some very long arms if pulling against the end of the input shaft. There seem to be many different styles, lengths, sizes, etc.

    Piff, I am hoping to post lots of pictures and text hoping that others can learn and use it. This stuff is new to me and some of the things that seem simple or obvious to many, I find a bit confusing or not explained as clearly as I like or need. I'm slow so, I hope you're not in a hurry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  5. Sep 1, 2013
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Dave, This is what I use.........Posi-Lock Pullers..........normally doesn't take much force to come off.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sep 1, 2013
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Sometimes you can rent them from the parts house. I have also used a short puller/spliter - put pressure on it and tapped the input back toward the case with bearing hammer to get it apart.
     
  7. Sep 1, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Thanks guys. I looked at buying a puller like the one in the picture and at a clam shell puller splitter. Sort of expensive for good ones. I will look into renting what I need like Chuck suggests. The reach on the Ford transmission will be even farther on the rear bearing. Might be stalled here for a while until I figure out which way I'm gonna go to get the bearings off. Drat.
     
  8. Sep 1, 2013
    OleBlue

    OleBlue Sponsor

    Tennessee
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    I bought that one on the left to rebuild my T15. Makes things easy, and it should since it's about $200. It has skinny feet to fit in the split ring groove. I've used it several times since I had to take my tranny back down a time or two (my first rebuild as well) ;)
     
  9. Sep 1, 2013
    piffey263

    piffey263 Active Member

    Yreka, CA
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    no rush wheelie,

    I have not taken apart a t-18 before but when I rebuilt the t-14 I needed to pull the bearing off and it looks similar to the t-18
    this is just a thought you might look into. Harbor Freight (I don't like buying tools there but something to consider) they got a bearing puller for about $40 that will grab the bearing by snap ring groves, all I had to do was get longer studs so that way the puller would for for the t-14 shaft. This is just something to look into.

    I do not have a picture with the puller with longer studs, I used a two bolts and carefully put threads on other end and cut head off so I could get extra length to do input shaft on t-14

    this is the rear of trans
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Sep 2, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Well, I hate to say it but, after exploring any other currently affordable options and finding nothing that seemed like it would work, I paid the Chinese for o one of these sets.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...s/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-93980.html

    36.00 American dollars, and change, out the door with a 20% off coupon. Sorry folks. You know how I am about this stuff. If I had the dough, I'd have bought a domestic piece. But, I digress.

    It's for 3 and 4 inch bearings and has enough extensions to reach the bearing snap ring groove. Unfortunately, my little pea brain did not realize that it is designed to pull from underneath of a 3 or 4 inch bearing, not from the snap ring groove. The narrowest part of the wedge shaped area of the clam shell part, doesn't fit around the snap ring groove very well, and will only make contact at four small spots as is seen in Piffs photo above. I wasn't comfortable with trying what Piff did but, I'll give it a whirl. I was going to fab up my own pieces to grab the snap ring groove, out of some angle iron, and use the rest of the HF tool to complete the set up.

    I think I would a clam shell for maybe a 6 or 8 inch bearing, to properly engage the groove.
    I'll let you know how I fare out later. Thanks for the pictures, Piff. Hope I have similar success.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  11. Sep 2, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    You might see if you can drive the bearing out from the inside with a long punch far enough to get the bearing splitter behind the bearing.
    Also take note of the thickness of the bearing on the input of the Ford transmission. Some late model units use a thicker bearing here. It's the same bearing used on the output. Most of the earlier units use a thinner bearing.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  12. Sep 3, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

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    First attempt.......FAIL. Tried grabbing the groove with the HF unit. The spreader bar isn't really long enough to grab the extensions properly when trying to use the puller this way. That's the first problem. Next, the bolts to clamp the clam shell together aren't long enough for grabbing the bearing this way (like in Piff's picture above). I tried some heavy all-thread and quickly noticed that it was bending, as I suspected it might. Another 3/4 turn and the whole contraption came apart, rather gently I might add. (Safety glasses on, check.)

    I may try to spring for good 8" long bolts and try them instead of the all thread but, the spreader bar not being long enough bothers me. Just looks like I'm asking for it. And the clam shell got nicked up pretty good in the process. Definitely making me doubt even trying make something out of angle iron. Soft metal pulling against hard metal doesn't make sense to me.

    Maybe this bearing is pressed on with more force than I imagined, or I just have a stubborn one.

    Nick, it doesn't look or feel or seem as though I could get the puller completely behind the bearing as it is supposed to be used, because of the gear directly behind the bearing. And that gear would certainly prohibit use of a punch. The bearing and shaft will move in and out of the case but, the bearing won't budge on
    the shaft. I'm not done yet but, this thing may end up at a shop to get the bearings off. I'll try a few more things first.
     
  13. Sep 3, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Wish you were local. We'd have them off quick. The puller set I use for transmissions wasn't cheap, about $700, but I make a living with them. There are cheaper options out there. Might be cheapest to have them prepped and take the two transmissions to a shop and have them pull the bearings for you. Some bearings come off pretty easy, some my 10 ton puller would barely remove and only with lots of sweat and a few choice words.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  14. Sep 4, 2013
    OleBlue

    OleBlue Sponsor

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    http://www.posilock.com/Transmis/transmis.htm
    These pullers are pricey, but well worth it in my opinion. If you take the model number and search, Amazon has them. If you have to use it a few times, it pays for itself. Don't ask me how I know. Also, you could resell it for nearly as much as you paid for it as barely used if you don't need to keep it forever.
     
  15. Sep 4, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

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    I've been looking at them. Watching them. Wanting one. Trying to make it right in my head, and check book. Tax time and homeowners is due though. I'm kicking the idea around. I'm patient. I'll mess with the HF unit a couple more times and see what happens. Maybe by then I will have talked myself into the purchase. I think the model 110 or 112 would work. Need to reach about 12" on the Scout, and less on the Ford. I thought the Ford stuff was longer but, I was incorrect.

    Been asking around a bit, if anyone has a puller I could borrow. I don't like borrowing tools but, this may be a good time to do just that.

    The posi lock pullers come as regular pullers or specialized for transmission work, designated as TJ-xxx. The puller fingers are thinner at the end for getting into the snap ring grooves. I suppose this would be the puller of choice, yes?
     
  16. Sep 4, 2013
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    That one model does have the thin Jaws and that model is also a two Jaw puller only...............look in Craigs List........try some Rental Equipment Yards.........go by a Local Mechanic's shop and see if they may have one to either rent or see how much they would charge to pull the bearings............Guys that work on Trucks have these also..................Like Nick said if you were nearby we would have those off already!
     
  17. Sep 4, 2013
    OleBlue

    OleBlue Sponsor

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    Yes. I have the TJ-1
     
  18. Sep 5, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

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    Success! Grabbed a couple of non-graded 1/2" x 7" bolts for the HF puller. Cranked everything down good and snug and the bearing came right out, almost with ease.
    [​IMG]


    Front shaft removed. Apparently, by the paint marks, this transmission has been apart before. The first blocking ring, that came out with the input, looked pretty good from what I can tell. But, I'm no expert and just kind of guessing.
    [​IMG]


    Factory adapter removed from the rear of the transmission. Went to work on the rear bearing and had the same issue as I had with the front. The cheap, non graded bolts began to bend. I did find some grade 5 bolts of the necessary length at a local store. I'll pick them up tomorrow, maybe, and try the rear bearing again. Nice to be moving forward.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  19. Sep 5, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    When you get pressure on the bearing, hit the pressure screw of the puller very sharply with a hammer the. Try and tighten it up again. Sometimes this jars the bearing and it slowly works off the shaft. Before trying to remove the mainshaft you will need to drive out the cluster shaft and let the cluster gear drop to the bottom of the case. When you remove the input from the Ford case you will need to do the same before you try and remove the input. The IH T-18 I bet was a 4.02-1 version (23tooth input) or you most likely would not have been able to remove it with the cluster gear still in place. Reason is the 4.02-1 version has a cutout in the dog teeth area and the 6.32-1 doesn't. You will need to save the cluster shaft and reverse idler shaft lock plate (unless the rebuild kit came with one for the 4 wheel drive version, most don't) so be careful not to damage it.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  20. Sep 5, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

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    Did the hammer thing. Will keep trying.

    Cluster gear? The exploded diagram I am looking at, at the moment, shows no "cluster" gear or shaft. Is that another name for the counter shaft?

    Makes sense about the 4.02 gear. That shaft would only come out at a certain position.

    Save the cluster shaft and reverse idler shaft lock plate from from the IH transmission? I did tell Herm that the trans I was rebuilding was from a 4x4, I think. Not positive, though. I'm holding onto all parts until I'm done.

    This doesn't mean I'm building a 4.02 first transmission does it? I envision removing everything from the Scout shafts and putting it all on the Ford shafts. But, this was before I saw the inside of one of these things.
     

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