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Generator charging system

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by mainejeep, May 3, 2012.

  1. May 11, 2012
    mainejeep

    mainejeep Member

    kenduskeag maine
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    ok walt one last one for the nite ...the voltage regulator i have has two studs on the left and on one on the right. i think A is the top left that is where the gen wire is attached B is the bottom left that is where the wire that i asked about earlier tonight is attached the right side has all the lights power etc. now when i rev the engine i get voltage on my B stud which is attached to the field coil wire would this be the same one that i would bun back to my batt for charging or do i have to run a wire all teh way from the amp meter back to the batt. ? I had it hooked to the other wire (A) and almost burned the gen.up so i know that one was the wrong one :rofl:....am i making sense or just jibberish lol
     
  2. May 12, 2012
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,126
    I'm coming into this a bit late but here's a diagram on how everything is *supposed* to be connected together-

    [​IMG]

    From the service manual here's a thousand words explaining the above-

    CURRENT- VOLTAGE REGULATORS

    Description arid Operation

    For replacement, voltage regulator and generator must be matched for voltage and capacity, polarity and common source of manufacture. Otherwise, either a loss of ampere capacity or a burned out generator will result.
    These regulators are used with shunt type and have three units each with separate functions to perform. These units are the circuit breaker unit, the voltage regulator unit and the current limiting regulator unit.

    Circuit breaker

    It consists of an electromagnet and a set of contacts. The contacts are mounted with one on a stationary bracket and the other on a moveable armature which is controlled by the electromagnet. the moveable contact is mounted on a spring arms so that as the contacts open and close a slight wiping motion is produced .

    The electromagnet of the circuit breaker has two windings, one , the shunt coil which is connected across the generator output like a voltmeter and the other a series coil connected in series with with the generator output like an ammeter. these two coils are wound in the same direction so that when the generator is charging the battery, the magnetism of the the series coil increases the total magnetism . When the battery discharges back through the generator, the magnetism of the series coil is reversed and the magnetism of the two coils is opposed. This results in a decreased pull on the armature and spring action opens the contacts.

    The sequence of operation of the circuit breaker is as follows;
    when the generator is not running, the contacts are open. When the generator is started, the voltage builds up at the armature terminal and as soon as it reaches the value for which the circuit breaker is calibrated, there is sufficient magnetism created by the shunt coil to pull down the armature, closing the contacts which idiomatically connects the generator to the battery. With the contacts thus closed the current in the series coil is flowing from the generator to the battery or in the same direction as the current in the shunt coil, so that the pull on the armature is increased by the magnetism of the series coil.
    When the engine is stopped and the generator loses speed , the voltage falls, and as soon as the generator voltage falls below the battery terminal voltage , the current flows from the battery to the generator, reversing the direction of the current in the series coil so that the magnetism created by the series coil opposes and reduces the magnetism of the shunt coil. this reduces the pull on the on the armature to a point where spring action opens the contacts.



    Voltage regulator


    The function of the voltage regulator is to hold the the generated voltage at a per-determined value as long as the circuit values allow the voltage to build up to the operating voltage.
    The electromagnet of the voltage regulator has a winging of many turns of fine wire and is connected across the charging circuit so that the system voltage controls the amount of magnetism. the contacts of the voltage regulator unit are connected in the in the generator field circuit so that the field circuit is completed through the contacts when they are closed and through a resister when they are opened.
    When the voltage rises to a per-determined value there is sufficient magnetism created by the regulator winding to pull the armature down. This opens the contacts and inserts resistance in the field circuit of the generator thus reducing the field current. the generated voltage immediately drops, which reduces the pull on the armature to the point where the spring closes the contacts. the output then rises and the cycle is repeated.
    these cycles occur at high enough frequencies to hold the generated voltage at a constant value and will continue as long as the voltage of the circuit its high enough to keep the voltage regulator unit in operation. With the addition of a current load groat enough to lower battery voltage below the operating threshold of the unit, the contacts will remain closed and the generator will maintain a charging rate as limited by it's speed or the current limiting regulator. Due to the effect of heat on the operating characteristics of regulator windings it is necessary to compensate for changes in coil resistance when the regulator is operating under varying temperature conditions. This is accomplished through the use of a nickle iron magnetic bypass on the voltage regulator unit. This shunt bypasses some of the magnetic flux when the unit is cold and allows most of the flux to act on the armature when the unit is hot. Thus when the coil is hot and not as efficient, the magnetic shunt reduces the amount of flux needed to vibrate the armature.
    The compensation is usually more than enough to offset the changed in regulator coil resistance due to heat. The excess compensation allows the regulator to operate at higher voltage under cold operating conditions than under hot conditions. This is necessary as it requires a higher voltage to charge the battery with its internal resistance increased by cold temperature.

    Current limiting Regulator

    The function of the current-limiting regulator is to limit the output of the generator to its maximum safe output.

    The electromagnet of the current regulator unit consists of a winding of heavy wire that is in series with the generator output. when the generator output reaches a per-determined value , the current in the winding produces enough magnetism to overcome spring tension and pull the armature down. This opens the contacts and inserts a resistance into the field circuit of the generator. With the field current reduced by the resistance, the generator output falls and there is no longer enough magnetism to hold the contacts open. as soon as the spring closes the contacts the output rises and the cycle is repeated. These cycles occur at high enough frequencies to limit the output to a minimum fluctuation.


    There's also some very good stuff on troubleshooting for problems if it doesn't work once you get the wiring sorted out.

    http://www.tantel.ca/Images/The Sludge Pile/Section_H_Electrical/Genny page_4.gif
    http://www.tantel.ca/Images/The Sludge Pile/Section_H_Electrical/Genny page_5.gif
    http://www.tantel.ca/Images/The Sludge Pile/Section_H_Electrical/Genny page_6.gif
    http://www.tantel.ca/Images/The Sludge Pile/Section_H_Electrical/Genny page_7.gif

    Just because we all like pictures:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps,

    H.
     
  3. May 15, 2012
    mainejeep

    mainejeep Member

    kenduskeag maine
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    ok so i have the same voltaget regulator and from waht i can tell mine is backwards ths single tab should be the gen power wire corect ...not trying to beat a dead horse here jsut trying to get it right?
     
  4. May 16, 2012
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,126
    The "single" tab should be stamped "batt" & that's labeled "B" in the diagram. That goes to the solenoid & to the light switch circuit breaker.

    H.

    p.s.- first person to spot the mistake I made in the diagram wins a case of beer :)
     
  5. May 16, 2012
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    I see a "B" circuit generator with an "A" circuit regulator.
     
  6. May 16, 2012
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,126
    :twisted: Your beer is in the icebox, Come 'N'Get'Em. :)

    H.
     
  7. May 17, 2012
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    By the way Howard-- that is a neat diagram and will help a lot of guys to get a clearer picture of how the system works. One diagram is worth a thousand words and thanks for your input. It is always interesting.
     
  8. May 17, 2012
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,126
    Sweet talk me all you want you still hafta pick come up the beer if you want it.

    H.
     
  9. May 17, 2012
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
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    I will share. Just remember that every time you open one, this :beer: is on me..:)
     
  10. May 18, 2012
    mainejeep

    mainejeep Member

    kenduskeag maine
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Thank you guys very much espectailly you Howard im the type of person that has to read things a few times lol i literally was three inches from the screen reading it R) It really helped me out thanks again
     
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