Overhall 225 V6

Well, I brought the block and heads to the machine shop. And its been determined the block isn't in very good shape...i.e. it needs to be bored out and have new pistons installed...Ouch!

The machinist is also saying he needs to have my fly wheel, clutch plate, pressure plate, and Harmonic balancer to assemble/balance the motor. Is this necessary? I understand these motors are externally balanced and such...but the clutch plate and pressure plate as well? I am assuming it's going to cost more to balance these additional pieces as well. As nothing is cheap when it comes this darn motor. And I've yet to hear final cost of redoing the heads as they apparently need some value guides replaced.

Guess I am getting the job creep blues from all these unexpected expenses. Just didn't anticipate this engine to be so shot and costly to repair.



Thanks



Mike

 

I think someone is yanking your chain. I have never had a balance job done with the disc and pressure plate. These items should be zero balance from the manufacture and usually get changed out over the life of the engine anyway.

It would be unusual and very lucky to tear down a used motor and still have the bore within spec for new rings only. I just expect a new bore job and pistons, the only unknown being how big the overbore needs to be to clean it up.

 

^ X2

If you are needing to save money I would skip the balancing. Don't get me wrong because I balance mine, it's just not a critical item for an engine that will live in the bottom half of the RPM range. If cash is tight you will be better served by investing in quality parts and not balancing.

 

Overhaul and Rebuild are different.

If you say overhaul, that's just refreshing the engine to get some more miles from it. If you say rebuild, that says you're going to straighten the bores and put it back to like-new condition. You are describing a rebuild.

If you take the block in to a shop, it's near 100% certain that they will recommend you bore the block. If you take the heads in, they will typically recommend a regrind, some new parts, surfacing, and some kind of guide refurbishing. Sorry, but it's something of a mug's game ... it's to their benefit to keep their standards high (maybe even unrealistically high), and they routinely will.

You can take the engine back, look around for other opinions, do some additional research... Tom Monroe's book is good background: http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builde...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301950379&sr=1-2

If you want to save money, look for a good used engine. Or you can control costs by buying a complete rebuilt engine. Did this engine run before it went into the shop? What was the compression, wet and dry?

 

Also, ask if they can knurl the guides instead of fitting inserts. Knurling is not as durable a repair as inserts, but it is less expensive.

 

I don't think they are "yanking his chain" but I do feel it is unnecessary for his use based on the info given.

Balancing the rotating/reciprocating assembly with the pressure plate and disc is routine for high performance/high rpm engines. Unnecessary for daily driver, low end torque trail type use.

If you decide to have them balance the engine I would have them neutral balance it so when the clutch assembly is replaced it won't effect the balance of the engine.

Sounds like the machine shop is either trying to overbuild the engine for the intended use or they are going for the highest quality build possible.

If this is a high performance engine building machine shop I can understand it as this is normal for them and they most likely have a reputation to protect.

Might be a good idea to get a second opinion from another shop.

One note of caution. Don't go in saying "I want this, or I want that". Go in and tell them the intended use of the motor, the application it's used in, and the intended rpm range you plan on running. That goes a long way to getting what you need with the costs being in the reasonable range.

We used to get lots of people saying something like "I want this to put out 350 horsepower" with refusal of what the intended use was. We'd build the motor, then they'd be unhappy with the results because they didn't get what they thought they should have in rpm range, fuel economy, whatever. It got to the point where if they refused to divulge more info, we wouldn't build them a motor....
If you don't have them balance the engine it becomes a non-issue.

 

oofff, I only have that done on engines that will regularly turn over 5000 RPMs.

It is an odd fire V6, how smooth are you going to make it run?

What RPM range are you going to run? I currently have a tach that maxes out at 3000 RPMs in my jeep.

As suggested before, buying an already built engine (used or rebuilt) is always cheaper. That being said, I use a local guy for all my rebuilds because of personal reasons.

Taking your engine back now might be a problem. He has already disassembled it and the commercial rebuilding company is not going to want a box of parts.