Herm vs. R&P, who's FF kit do you buy?

I have a spare 44 housing here, and am going to start cobbling some parts together to swap the brakes, and the 2 pc shafts. Any pro's/con's, to the FF 30 spline kits available from Herm and R&P? Which one would you use and why?

Thanks

 

At this moment R&P is actually selling Herm's FF kit. However, there is R&D going into using 5 lug Dana 60 outers with the Dana 44 at R&P. That gets you the standard 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern, but Dana 60 bearings, hubs, locking hubs or drive flanges, etc. It's not done yet.
Right now basically Herm is the only game in town for a complete kit. R&P does a lot of custom ff stuff. Might call them if you have any questions. 503-557-8911.

 

Need another guinea pig????? I have been looking at trying to piece together the same setup for a couple of years. Is this kit going to use the stock 2.75" od tubes/backing plate flanges found on most 44's with just an adapter plate to get the 60 spindle bolt pattern? I see the REALLY big advantage as not the bigger bearings but in the axle diameter and much beefier drive flange. Herm's kit is certainly an improvement but having the shafts neck down at the spindle negates a lot of what is gained at the carrier-not to mention having to pull the spindle to change out the shaft.

 

Plan is to make it as bolt on as possible. I could tell you the details, but then I'd have to kill you
Seriously, several options are being looked at so what's happening today may change tomorrow.

Regarding the necking down of Herm's kit, that's why I machined my spindles out farther. I can remove the axle without removing the spindle and I still have a beefier axle than Herm's set up. It does have to neck down for the 27 spline hubs, but it's still stronger.
I had Dutchman build the shafts for me around 18 or so years ago.

 

I have Herm's kit in mine, and the shafts were replaceable without pulling any spindle. Mine was a flanged axle though to begin with? I've broken one so far, and debating if the full floating kit is stronger than the flanged due to the smaller shaft diameter.

 

The "right" full floating axle is stronger than the stock flanged shafts. That's why the design is used in 3/4 ton and larger vehicles. A "different designed" ff kit just allows use of a locking hub for towing or strength in the wheel bearing area as you have two bearings dividing the load vs. one bearing supporting the whole vehicle's weight.
Your spindles had to be machined out larger then as he designs the shafts to neck down so the spindles don't have to be machined as much. He feels the spindle strength is worth the necking down of the shafts. I've measured his axles, compared them to how we used to build the ff kit, talked to him about how he builds his, etc. etc. I've known him for at least 15 years and we are pretty open with info back and forth.
Having said all that, anything can be broken in the right (or wrong) circumstances.

 

But isn't .250" of diameter difference quite substantial when you're talking about strength? The flanged axle's smallest diameter is the splines going into the differential, where the full floating kit's smallest is right behind the splines that match up to the flange. That is what I'm curios about. Trying to get some info out of Dutchman as to what they think, they built my custom front axles, and hoping we can work something out, so that I don't break another full floater. One issue I'm trying to figure out is if the fact the axles sent to me weren't machined to fit, and we had to remove material to make it fit. The end that goes to the puck was swelled up from the splining and would not fit into the spindle. Herm told me to just turn it down till they fit. This spot is the same where I broke, It was the drivers side by the flange.

Justin

 

Puck?
Huh? You say the axle can be removed without removing the spindle but say you had to remove material to make it fit in the spindle? I don't understand.

What "puck" are you talking about? Are you running drive flanges or hubs? what spline count are you running on the outer end?

What spot is where you broke? I'm missing something here... Maybe just because it's late and I'm tired (likely) but I need some clarification here. By the flange? Floater axles can be flanged on the outer end as part of the axle (Herm doesn't build his this way) or they can be splined on both ends to run a splined bolt on style flange on the outer end or locking hub (or in the case of internal style hubs a snap ring to run an internal drive hub or locking hub).

 

Getting pretty close to where I might have to say--------


:uwop:

 

This is interesting. When I first read this, it sounded to me like they were adapting the 5on5.5 D60 semi-FF shafts to the D44 housing. My first reaction was that these are not plentiful enough to make any such kit feasible at a reasonable price. But I expect it must be some kind of D60 FF hub... do you think there would be a market for a stronger semi-FF axle conversion? You'd have to give up the utility gained with locking hubs ... but maybe everybody running at that level uses flanges anyway.

 

Gee, I just can't resist a comment or two.
If push comes to shove then something will invariably break.

If it were me I would prefer to have a weak link that is easy to replace and inexpensive.
You know, kinda like the shear pin for an ouboard propeller ?

I sure would not want to break the side gears nor the R+P nor anything else inside for that matter.
The 27 spline outer is a full float shafts minimum diameter.
Stripping out a 27 spline drive flange (mild steel) is the safety valve so to speak.
Herm claims that the flange bolts will give out before the drive flange splines.

Bottom line is.....If you beef up the shafts then what gives next ?

 

Yeah, these are 5 lug Dana 60 conversion bearing hubs. These can be had in 6 lug and others as well. It's the brain child of Richard who is always looking at new ideas. A few lockers are now available with up to 35 spline side gears for the Dana 44, but you can't get a 35 spline axle in a 44 spindle, not enough material to machine away and still be strong enough. This is why the work on a 44 that will accept a 35 spline shaft using 60 components. 35 spline side gears cannot work with a stock 44 diff case.

The limiting factor I see trying to put a 35 spline semi-float shaft in a 44 is the bearing size. It can be done. We've built a couple for customers. You have to change housing ends though. We typically use Ford 9" ends then you have several options for brakes, like 11" drums, Explorer disc brakes with park brake, etc.

 

I've heard of people using D60 parts in the newer D44 housings for TJs. I'm not sure about the specifics of that, but I think they were talking about the shafts - could be wrong there. I think they had to machine the shafts somehow to make them fit....