Rear End Upgrades

I have the D44 rear, offset, with the 19 spline tapered shafts. I also run 1.25" wheel spacers in the rear, but even 2+" would be okay with me for width. I'm contemplating what to do for the rear upgrade to get away from the 19 spline tapered shafts before they blow while I'm wheeling:

1 - A guy in my club has the 30 spline flanged shafts and bearings for the offset rear D44, and I can get them for $200-250 plus another $200 for a new 30 spline spool. Total: $450 and everything is bolt in.

2 - Found this on craigslist for my area http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/pts/1427211967.html it is D44 rear, offset, out of a mid-70's wagoneer with quadratrac. This axle, I'm assuming, is wider than my rear now. Does anyone know how much wider? It has the wrong axle ratio, but i can pull the gears out of mine and put them on a new spool, and weld spring plates to the bottom of the axle tubes, no big deal. I know it is also 6 lug vs. 5 lug I have now. So, $75 for axle, $200 for spool, $25 for spring plates, $100 for wheels. Total: $400 and its still offset rear to keep my t-case and its wider than my current setup so maybe I can get rid of wheel spacers... The things I need your help with are is the offset correct or close to correct for 'wheelin and how much wider is that axle than mine, WMS to WMS?

3 - Found this on craigslist in my area, too http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pts/1425493826.html CJ Narrow track, so would still run the spacers I'm currently running, but it sounds like it's ready to roll, and has the same axle gears as mine currently have, so would be a bolt in and roll, but would have to get a new transfer case. I could then maybe go to a dana300 and get a flatter skid under the Jeep, but that is gonna be some bucks to get a dana 300. So $475 for this axle and it is bolt in ready, but need a transfer case, which can be $200-$1000. Total: $475 plus ????, but this is mildly appealing for the future t-case swap for a flatter skid plate on my Jeep, as the lava rock catches everything...

So, what would you guys do if you were me, as all three options are relatively similar in cost with a few caveats along the way depending on option....Thanks guys.

 

Well option 1 is a no go as you cannot put flanged axles in a non flanged housing.

 

If you are in Portland, I can sell you a 70 offset 30 spline axle that has a blown up trak-lok in it. PM me a phone number and we can figure it out.

 

WMS-WMS, 8.5" difference. http://www.jeeptech.com/axle/d44.html

Also, check that the Wagoneer axle offset will allow you to center the axle between the frame rails. The CJ frame rails are much closer together than the Wagoneer.

The 4.27 axle is pretty desirable if you want 4.27 gears, but $475 seems high. A D20 should be cheap or free, but a D300 that matches your transmission will be scarce and expensive. If you go that route, a trans swap might be more practical than trying to find a Texas pattern D300.

 

Well, as of right now I do want 4.27 gears, as that is what I currently have in the front and rear of my rig, so it would be a direct match.

Also, I didn't mention it, but I will be putting a t-18 in my rig before Thanksgiving; I finally have the money for the swap, now its just time.

From my understanding when talking to Mike at Partsmike and talking to a guy in my club, and talking to another guy about my rear axle options, I wanted to full-float the rear, but the hubs can't really ideally handle the load on the rear axle, so they are a weak link, and drive flanges defeat the purpose of being able to turn the hubs out to flat tow. All three sources have stated that I can pull the 19 spline tapered axles out and get a new carrier and upgrade to 30 spline flanged, but I have to have the correct bearings and races and hardware and everything, but it is convertable. They all say this conversion is the better way to go, but I can't just pull axles from a flanged, offset d44 rear and have them work, I have to have all the parts and pieces of this conversion package for it to work correctly. Anyone else know differently for sure also?

 

Like Mcruff said above you need the Flanged housing for the Flanged axles. A non flanged housing is different from flanged housing.

 

I would direct this question directly to member (Nickmil). He would be the resident expert on this and I would believe him over partsmike or anyone else. My understanding is that this is not possible at all. If it was doable there would be lots of guys doing it and a kit to do it I'm sure, cause these axles can be bought new (special order).

 

member Scott Millner here tried to do it....Summers Bros axles
he has a tale of woe he told...
personally, go full float.
swap the hubs and put drive flanges on when you get where you're going
I don't know how hard you plan on wheeling
nothing really wrong with the 19 spline....as long as you have and/or can find OEM axles.
if you abuse it, you can blow apart any rear axle...regardless.

 

I thought there was someone here who tried it but couldn't remember who.

 

2X. Go with herm's kit. It wasn't available at the time of my conversion. Mine was done with Warn parts and custom axles.

Found out about the housing change after my Detroit Locker was set up.

 

My advice is to keep that 44 under there, contact Herm about one of his 30 spline full floater kits, I know it may sound more expensive at first but over all the fact you do not have to convert a new axle under there it may be just as cheap to set up and get a modern traction control device that way. Plus one of the benefits of full floating an axle is getting the weight of the jeep off the inner axle onto the housing. It is a huge bonus to keeping that puppy in great shape.

 

One more possible option: Advanced Adapters made a 19 spline full float kit for your axle that is a direct bolt-in. I don't know what the probability is of finding one of these but they did work pretty well. I have abused one in the 3B for 30 plus years with a detroit locker and powerloc without any problems. You might still find one a a swap or on the net. I have that 19 spline detroit for sale at 250 if anyone is interested. Only about 8k on it but it was going to get me killed in the 3B.

 

The only way to put 30 spline flanged axles in a tapered housing is with special, custom built parts. See Post above about Scott Milliner's issues.

The housing ends are completely different and if someone is telling you stock flanged 30 spline shafts will fit right into a tapered axle housing either they are referring to custom parts and conversion shafts or do not know what they are talking about. I've had both housings sitting side by side for comparison and they are way different. Just put an offset flanged in my daughter's Jeep.

The best result would be to go ff with one of Herm's conversions. They are a well built kit.
Whether the hubs hold up or not is very subjective. I've had a set on the back of my CJ-5 with a dyno'd 220 hp (at the wheels) 231. I used the Warn Premium ZA bodied external hubs with studs and lock nuts. I've not had a problem in around 17 years of use and abuse with a Lock rite, 5.38 gears, and 33" tires. I'm not easy on my stuff but do maintain it.
On the other hand, anything can be broken.

If I were planning on changing cases to a 30 spline unit anyway, I'd go FF with locking hubs and carry a couple of drive flanges for spares just in case. They don't take up much space and give good piece of mind.
That's what i do.
You could also run drive flanges and not worry about the locking hubs. Be the same as running the flanged axles but much stronger as the shaft is not supporting the weight of the vehicle, 2 wheel bearings at each wheel are, which is twice as many as a semi-float axle. That's where the strength lies. The locking hubs are simply an additional benefit for those with a FF axle kit. Whether I went with locking hubs or drive flanges I'd still go studs and locking nuts. Much stronger and less likely to loosen up which is why many locking hubs shear the bolts in the bearing hubs.

 

How strong are the flanged stock axles? I found an off set flanged 44 for $100.

 

For that kind of money its indestructable.
I hope this is in your garage already.
Seriously they are the strongest axle ever put under a stock cj5.

 

Okay, so how I mentioned I wanted ideally to have my axles about 4" or so wider than stock...There is a mid-70's scout down the street with 44's front and rear, and it hasn't moved for 6 years. I'm thinking of offering the guy 200 bucks for it and use those axles front and rear, and put my 4.27's from my 44's inside of the full width scout (II?) axles, along with my lockers I have in my axles already. If I remember correctly, are Scout axles roughly 5" wider than narrowtrack CJ axles, or am I way off base? I could then also use the dana 20 out of the scout so I can run the centered rear diff. This option also affords me the luxury of being able to just buy regular scout dana 44 chromoly axle shaft upgrades, instead of buying them for the front and having to cut them down and re-spline them for my narrowed front 44, and figure out what to do for the rear end. A buddy up the street from me said he'd buy my front 44 if I got rid of it, which would basically mean I could get these axles for free, and just set them up in my garage with a buddy from the club. (Please don't comment about scouts having 0caster, I would re-do the inner C's to take care of that). Does this sound like a decent option if I'm also looking for a bit more width, or am I way off base with this whole theory? Do d18's and d20's bolt up the same? and do d20's in jeeps and in scouts bolt up the same? Thanks.

 

with enough time and money you can do what you want to do.....
sounds like your mind is made up to swap

what are your Jeeping/driving plans for the Jeep ?
otherwise, just build it the way you want to

 

With Scout axles you will have to remove the front knuckles and rotate them to have any caster at all in the front steering. Otherwise it will wander all over the road. You will also have to outboard the springs as the spring perches will never line up with your frame. I have a friend of mine with a 77 cj5 with scout axles in it, I helped him do some of the work. If this is for a general trail rig you are certainly going to alot of trouble that is not really needed. Don't get me wrong I like the idea but this is alot of work and money.