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225 upper rpm limit?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by trickpatrick, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Jul 17, 2009
    trickpatrick

    trickpatrick Done? LOL

    North Idaho USA
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    Nov 29, 2006
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    838
    The motor just stops making anymore power at about 3200 rpm.

    Is that right, or am I missing some upper rpm power.:?
     
  2. Jul 17, 2009
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Mine pulls hard up to 4500 RPM or so, after that I usually let off. Not that I usually run it that high but still.
     
  3. Jul 17, 2009
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    I usually quit at 4K, but it's still pulling. Max HP is rated at 4500 IIRC.
     
  4. Jul 17, 2009
    trickpatrick

    trickpatrick Done? LOL

    North Idaho USA
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    Nov 29, 2006
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    Something may not be right then.

    Low rpm in the woods it's fine.

    But accelerating on the road its not cutting out exactly more like valve float I guess. Just quits pulling.

    I have a used HEI in it.

    Can the control module maybe cause that.

    I have the adjustable vacume advance in it and it's working

    Or valve spring's I guess.

    Its not gas it doesnt sound or feel like that

    I am running 3.73 gears and 32's, it feels like its in overdrive all the time.

    Forth is prettly useless about 1000 to 900 rpm on the highway.

    So am planning on switching to 4.56's and 33" tires this winter.

    So I think that will help with the power band being right and having more umph at the right time.
     
  5. Jul 17, 2009
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
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    Something is not right there.

    According to a quick calculation you should be doing ~2500 RPM at 65MPH


    edit: thats 2500 with a 4 speed manual AOD should be around 1700RPM
     
  6. Jul 17, 2009
    trickpatrick

    trickpatrick Done? LOL

    North Idaho USA
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    Nov 29, 2006
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    838
    I wounder if my tach is off...

    According to the novak cal. something is wrong...
     
  7. Jul 17, 2009
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
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    I am voting something in the tach.
     
  8. Jul 17, 2009
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    Try unhooking the vacuum advance. The Hei usually advances itself enough with the 225(unless the springs are really strong). My 71 has hei and I run it w/o the advance.
     
  9. Jul 18, 2009
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Err, with my 3.73 and 33" tires mine doesn't sound like what you described, gears aren't going to "fix" the problem I don't think.

    The adjustable vacuum advance shouldn't have that much effect, but assuming you have it dialed in it won't hurt. Mine's set for 35* of total advance IIRC.
     
  10. Jul 18, 2009
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    When I had 3.73's with my 33's, it was geared pretty high, but it would certainly run down the highway in 4th gear nicely.... Even around here where there are "hills".
     
  11. Jul 18, 2009
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Agreed, I can accelerate uphill in 3rd (3 spd.).
     
  12. Jul 18, 2009
    trickpatrick

    trickpatrick Done? LOL

    North Idaho USA
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    I drove it around last night and tried paying real close attention to it.
    The tach is good.
    THe advance is right on 30, 35.
    Runs real smooth once I found the vacume leak.:rofl:

    Its just geared a little to high not really in the torque range.
    Which seems wierd based on lots of comments here.

    Acts like floating valves around 3500 rpm.

    Have to do at least 55 to use 4th gear.

    3rd is 2000rpm at about 45 to 50.
     
  13. Jul 18, 2009
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Something's not right....
    With the 3.73's, I could cruise at 25MPH in 4th...Not much power, but it would cruise around town at those speeds..
     
  14. Jul 18, 2009
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Yeah, I can leave mine in third and just lug it around town with no issues, or just leave it in second and treat it like an auto in-town.
     
  15. Jul 18, 2009
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sounds to me like the timing is retarded. Maybe the distributor is a tooth off?
     
  16. Jul 18, 2009
    Chris Insull

    Chris Insull All roads lead me back to the beach... 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chesapeake, VA.
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    I'm with you on that one, Patrick... Never found a need to wrap it much tighter. I am curious as to what the max RPM rating is. Per the FSM (stock engine) the max torque (235) comes at 2400 RPM and the max HP (160) comes at 4200 RPM. I never use the OD around town (below 40 MPH), just on the freeway. Not too many "real" hills around here, but when I lived in San Diego and went to Ocotillo Wells I only needed to shift out of OD into 1:1 3rd when I was heading up the last bit of the I-78 to Julian. Now, off-highway, that's a different story...
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2009
  17. Jul 19, 2009
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Backwards ...

    Horsepower (net) 160@4200
    Torque (net) 235@2400

    In all realistic cases, power has to peak at higher RPM than torque, because power equals torque times RPM, to within a constant coefficient.

    HP = A * torque * RPM

    where A is a conversion coefficient.

    The only way you can have torque peak higher than power is if you have a very peaky torque curve, that increases with slope greater than A at less than the peak and decreases with slope less than -A after the peak. Not realistic.

    <edit> Also, A has to be larger than 1, otherwise torque has to be maximum at 0 RPM. Also not realistic for these engines.

    Chris, not correcting you beyond point out the right values. I just thought the question of whether there's any way for your numbers to be real was interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2009
  18. Jul 20, 2009
    electricontr

    electricontr Member

    Denver Colorado
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    Something is weird about the last two posts. timgr's boxed quote is backwards of Chris's post. You both said the same thing...not opposite things.
     
  19. Jul 20, 2009
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    the 225 thrives with open headers, it really comes alive.
    at least that has been my experience with it in the dunes
    and I run the extreme upper end, so we're talking 4000 rpm +
    it's what works for me, regardless of the guys with calculators (no offense intended)
    this is a stock 225 with the 2g and no engine mods
     
  20. Jul 20, 2009
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    I am wondering if the exhaust might be plugged or at least heavily restricted in some manner.. Bad or restricted exhaust = Bad or reduced intake. That boils down to reduced RPM and no power..
     
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