Saginaw Steering Conversion

I know this conversion has been done on a lot of jeeps in here. I read the tech article here too and it was very helpful. I want to do this conversion to my '60 cj5. I know '71 and newer jeeps used this steering setup. I'm looking to scrounge as much as possible and modify what I have to make it work. I can't really afford to buy the $800 kit thats availible for this conversion. The kit doesnt even provide you with the gear box. I haven't decided to go with power or manual steering, I guess it depends what I can find at the junkyard (and whatever you guys recommend to do). I realize I'll have a lot of fabrication to do, but once I get all the parts I can from a donor, I'll figure out what I have to do to make it all work. Also, I'm not concenred with keeping my stock steering column. Anyway, from what year/model Jeep will I be able to get the most manuel steering parts from? From what year/model Jeep will I be able to get the most power steering parts from? Thanks.

 

Do you have the V6? If so get the pump from any 70's Buick 231. It should bolt right up. The box can be pulled from any CJ, just be aware that later Jeep may use o-ring fittings instead of flare. You need to make sure that the pump and the box both use the same type of fittings. The box can also come from any 60's and up GM car, but I would look for late 60's and early 70's large cars, as these have a desireable ratio.

Check the webshots link in my sig, I have a saginaw conversion section.

 

If you have not already found this there is a page of my drawings to make the mounts and such.
http://www.earlycj5.com/modules.php...ex&req=viewarticle&artid=1&page=1

If you need any explanation on the parts or better drawings Send me a PM!

 

Thanks for the link, those pics are a big help. The only reason I'm doing the swap is to make room for the exhaust for the engine thats going in this spring - a buick 215 aluminum v8. that and because after researching the topic, it seems like a no brainer that the swap should be done. I was originally going to use whatever p/s pump i got from a donor vechicle, but then i have to figure out how to mount a jeep pump to a buick motor. It makes more sense to get a buick pump and a buick bracket. even if the hose fittings betwen the gearbox and the pump are different, i can always get custom hoses made up. what about the drop arm off the gearbox? if i get a box off a jeep, will be be the right arm? what about tie rods? will the one off a donor work? I have a dana 25 front axle, and most jeeps after '71 that came with the saginaw steering have a dana 30. will those tie rods be okay for me?

 

Unless you have a tall lift the factory pitman arm will more than likely work fine, my box is off of a 74 Pontiac Catalina and the pitman arm was fine. The tie rods need to be the style that came with the axle. You need to move them around into a different configuration though and buy the long tube that goes from wheel to wheel for a dana 30 and a right hand tap (can't remember size, I will have to check) you then cut off the rh threaded end of the tube to proper length and then retap and re-slit the arm with a cut-off wheel, it is then ready use with the new configuration of the tie rods, this is the bar that connects both front wheels together. You need to get Mike Boyink to send a photo of his set up on Dutch to see how you arrange them, it is kind of hard to explain with out photos but I'll try. You take the center tie rod with the hole in it and put it on the pass knuckle side of the long tube then you place one of the standard tie rods in the hole on the tie rod hole you mounted on the pass knuckle and hook it to the tube that goes to the steering box, the threaded part on long tube that you fabbed up goes to the drivers side knuckle. This now leaves one long tube connecting the 2 font knuckles and a shorter rod the goes from the pass side knuckle to the steering box.

 

I have a Jeep Saginaw Power Steering Gear Box from a 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ (29,000 miles on it) that you could use. bought it on ebay and don't need it anymore. PM me if you need it...

 

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it once I figure out what I need. In terms of the boxes, I understand some have 3 bolts to hold it to the frame and some have 4 bolts. I want a 4 bolt version. Did all jeeps use the 4 bolt mount? I've also heard of using a box from a heavy GM car. Are those 4 bolt boxes? Assuming both the Jeep and GM boxes are 4 bolt, is one better than the other? Do the GM's have a more favorable ratio than the Jeep boxes? Is one better built than the other?

 

They are basically the same box, I have never seen a 3 bolt power box on a jeep. The jeep would be the most favorable ratio as with cars you are sort of taking a gamble unless you can turn the box lock to lock to see how many turns it has and the slow turn boxes in cars are harder to find.

 

thats what i figured. so basically i should look for a complete steering system from a post '71 CJ. I figure while I'm at it, I'll go the power steering route. Are the wranglers the same set up too? If so, up to what year? I plan on taking everything and anything related to the steering system - the box, the lines, the pump, the brackets, the column, the tie rods - everything. then i'm gonna look for a pump and bracket from a buick to fit my 215 v8. once i have all this stuff, is it just a matter of fabricating things? Obviously welding will need to be done. But are there any specific parts that i can't make without access to a machine shop that i will have to buy? will the rod with the U joints running from the bottom of the column to the box work for my application? I'm assuming it will, once I either lengthen or shorten the rod (which ever is necesary).

 

The parts that you can't make are the u-joint near the box to the steering shaft, the spud shaft if needed, and you will probably have to do something with the steering column. It would be best to get a column out of a 72-75 Cj5 if possible and all the parts that go with it. Its really a matter of what you have and then what you need, get the mount and the stuff for the frame, the steering box and a shaft from the column to the box or get the above mentioned column or one from a postal jeep of the same vintage. If you decide to go postal and can't find one locally, google (AAA motors) they are up the road about 8 miles from me and they have 100's of postal Jeeps, thats where my column came from, a 74 postal Jeep!!

 

I just did about my eigth conversion for a friend yeterday on a '65 cj. I got the manual box on ebay for $35 and a complete column from a '74 DJ at a wrecking yard for $50.(from steering wheel to rag joint) Total cost of parts was less than $100 including bolts and steel. This one was a 4 bolt box but the three bolt boxes are easier. It's about a 5 hour job after you've done a few. Take the entire front clip off first.

JB

 

so a column from a 72-75 cj5 OR dj is the best one to get? what about the box off a dj? would that work?

 

No the dj box is backwards due to the right hand steering!

 

No, only the column from a DJ will be a direct bolt in and look like the original. The DJ box will also be a righthand drive and won't work. Just find a 3 bolt saginaw that is about 6-1/2 turns lock to lock. The DJ needs to be '75 or older.

JB

 

Oh yeah - right hand drive on the DJ's.

JB, A 3 bolt saginaw? i thought all jeeps were 4 bolt? and although more difficult to mount, the 4 bolts is better than 3, right? I'll make sure its about 6.5 turns lock to lock, thats good to know.

 

The 72-75 CJ manual box has 3 bolts.

There are 3-bolt power boxes too. The S-10/Blazer has a 3-bolt box that is popular for FSJs, and should also work fine for CJs.

DJs aren't necessarily RHD, but most of them out there of the vintage you're looking for were post office jeeps and they are all RHD.

 

I was eyeing up a postal Jeep setup locally but when I returned, he crushed half his salvage yard because steel prices spiked a week ago.

Long story short, I think the postal setup is the most painless way to go.

See if you can get a group buy from this guy!

 

If I am able to find a DJ in a junkyard, how do I identify what year it is? From what has been said here, I need to find a '75 model or older. If I find a DJ, do I just need to look at the column and wheel? If it looks like whats in my '60 CJ5, does that mean its a '75 model or older?

 

I can't remember what the address was but postal jeep collectors(?!!) have a few web sites That also have links to places for parts and breakdown on the difference between the different models. Found them a couple of years ago when I was doing this conversion for a friend on his jeep.

 

linckiel,

Just look for a dj with a flat steering wheel like the original in your '60 cj. There were only two different columns used in the postal jeeps and you want the older one. It doesn't matter what the year is as long as the wheel is like your original.

VERY IMPORTANT !! when you find one, don't forget to also get the dash brace. It bolts from the bottom of the dash to the firewall next to the column. The new column will be very flimsy without the dash brace since it isn't bolted to the frame like the old rossbox was.

JB