Need some tips: switching to a YJ suspension

so, i finally picked up a suspension. rancho 2.5" yj springs. great story here: found them on craigslist, a guy mounted them on his yj, and had it sitting in his driveway not too long, but never used it as he had no driveshafts. he then decided to build a 4 link set up so he took the springs off and sold them to me...in a sense, never used
oh ya, and they came with a pair of revolver shackles for the rear!

SO, here i am, starting to look through catalogs for the hardware i need to get things rolling. here are the couple thoughts i'm thinking/planning:
-extend wheelbase in rear (because i want it, and to control driveshaft angle of lift especially with drop out of revolvers)
-front shackle reversal
-shock hoops and longer shocks
-may need limiting strap(s) for using revolvers

i know i need all new spring pads, spring hangers, u-bolts, shackle mounts, and shackles.
definitely gonna need at least one driveshaft (prob gonna get 2 regardless).
i figure i'll keep the spring under the axles since switching to yj with 2.5" should be more than enough lift to fit my tires and give me my flex/articulation capabilities.

so, those of you who have:
-switched to yj springs and/or
-extended wheelbase and/or
-shackle reversal

do you have any tips/tricks for the job?
what would you do again or do different?
anything you think i should or should not do?


thanks all!

 

I just put YJ spring on my CJ-7 however I didn't extend my axle or use revlover shackles. I simply used stock YJ shackles front and rear. I put on BDS 2" lift springs in the front which gave me a perfect 2" lift. For rear springs I used some left over Rubicon Express 2.5" lift springs. As feared when I put the rear springs on the Jeep sat up to high in the rear for my taste. I took them off and had them de-arched by one inch. I could have used a shorter shackle because the YJ shackles are about an inch or so longer that CJ shackles but I wanted the stock YJ shackle look. There were no issues it was pretty straight forward. I wouldn't do anything different other than not mis match springs like I did.

 

This SRS from MORE is for YJ spring conversion, but is made for '76 to '86, but might be adaptable to your '73.
http://www.mountainoffroad.com/Catalog/srs/7686_2shackle.htm

I was looking at doing a YJ spring swap, but the guy who had the "lift" fro sale didnt know anything about Jeeps and the lift turned out to be a body lift. I am still doing a SRS though, hope this helps.

Oh, and Tomken Machine makes some real nice shackle hangers (or did when I first did my suspension lift in "99), the rear ones might be just what you need. Also, extending the rear wheelbase will mean the diff is probably going to contact the fuel tank.

 

I would not do the front shackle reversal. The pros don't outweigh the cons. Makes it drive well on the street, but requires a longer slip in the front driveshaft.
Rear CJ-7 spring and shackle hangers work well.
I extended my wheelbase mostly by stretching it in the middle of the frame (doorway). Ruins having a top and doors almost, but it climbs much better. Not sure a person should extend the length much though unless they improve their middle groung clearance.
With the tires you have, and staying sprung under, you may end up with one of those rigs that is low and very stable, and make some bigger rigs look silly on some obstacles. Big ledges will be more of a challenge for you.
With those wide tires and a front locker, you will also want some help in the steering department. I have trouble steering my 13.50 wide claws with power steering and front locker disengaged. It worsens when I air down.

 

psyco: i remember reading about you getting that yj lift from your coworker-then you saw it came in a small box...bummer!
and good call about the pumpkin/fuel tank. i actually was thinking about cutting out part of the rear floor, raising the tank up, and doing a seat a bit different in the back; single seat/raised bench/no seat???

cj-x: maybe i misunderstood? my impression was that a shackle reversal drastically improved the off-road capability, yet drastically hindered the on-road handling...that is what i thought i read.
i have the same thoughts with improving the ground clearance. i was planning of clocking my d300 up to about level, then fabbing up a nice tucked skid plate, not too much lower than the frame. how it is now, i have a very low hanging crossmember and even lower t-case skid, making my ground clearance EMBARRASSINGLY low.

i am a bit worried about the steering as well. i feel that the power steering on these is a bit of a weak link ever since i broke mine all apart. should be good though from here out, but, if not, i'll tackle that when i come to that.

as far as the shackle mounts and spring hangers, i'm trying to decide what i'll buy and what i'll make.

 

Well, one theory is that with the reversal, the front tires put more pressure on the rocks you are trying to climb because there is no shackle to give. I don't really buy into that one. Another theory is that your axle flows over rocks and bumps on the trail better. That one I do buy. But if you have a decently soft set of springs which you will have, then you will be almost as good without the reversal. Now, it should track the front end better on the street with a reversal.
.
Now the cons are:
The bracketry in the front lowers your front approach angle right where you need it.
Your front driveshaft will be more likely to come apart or bottom out as the axle drops and raises.
The nose of the vehicle will tend to be forced downward under heavy braking.

I know many people like it. But many people have also done it, and then switched it back. I just do not think the advantages if any, are worth the work.
Enjoy pondering the pros and cons!

 

On the race cars, they would reverse the shackles to keep from bending the springs if they hit something at speed. Note these were real flat-out Baja racers, so it was important to survive a too-fast collision with rock, berm, whatever.

Otherwise I don't see how it can make much difference. I suspect that those that have noticed a huge improvement have unwittingly corrected a problem with their suspension geometry, and have drawn the obvious but wrong conclusion. Just a theory.

 

Very plausable theory. The scientific method is not commonly applied when assessing improvements and upgrades. Installing a 2.5" lift dramatically improved my steering and stability (of course, the old springs were clapped out, the bushings were shot, and the shackles were loose).

 

come over and drive my 5 with shackle revers this weekend.it does dive but mine is set up soft.you ALWAYS have to remember what you're driving.... you'll smash the rear tank if you move the rear and have to comp cut the tub. if Truckhaven is the worst you'll do ,I'd leave it ..... the rubicon /dusy trails can be done in a short 5. ....... I can stuff a short 5 into places that a wide axle long tub can't go but he will get me on the ledges ,but theres always the option to pull the winch. comprimises.....

 

hmmm, i might take you up on that, or at least give you a ring and bounce a couple ideas off you-i still have your number...

well, as i do enjoy truckhaven a lot, i have aspirations of taking this jeep a lot of places. i'd like to see some really rough stuff down the line.

so, i'm with you on the "always remember what your driving". if i was building a something that could handle the roads, there'd be an old rod in the garage. i'm building something to handle some tough *** terrain.

 

Axle wrap becomes an issue with a shackle reversal on hard climbs. With the shackles in front when you hit an object the spring cannot move back and therefore the tires are pushed into the object and pulling you up and over. Shackles in back the tires give pushing the axle back to a point then they unload and wheel hop happens. Can get scary on some off camber stuff.

 

Brian
I still can't comment on ride on mine, however . . .

I built my hangers from 3" X 0.24 square tubing and attached them so the extra width was to the outside of the frame. I matched the tube in the hanger to the bushings I used. I had someone else weld them on my frame but that was perhaps the easiest welding of the project.

I have an early Mountain Offroad shackle reversal done by a PO that worked pretty well despite the springs being worn out. I didn't have problems with my front drive shaft bottoming out but I haven't taken this jeep anywhere truly challenging.

Let me know if I can be any help. I'm out of towm this weekend but back late Sunday.

 

Here's some photos of the hangers I built . . .

 

I'd recommend you throw the revolvers into the closest trash can and stick with regular shackles. The revolvers unload at unpredictable times and can leave you on your lid. They are leftovers from the "ramp champ" era and don't add any additional trail ability. Once the springs unload, extra droop means nothing.

 

I totally agree trash the revolvers,asking for trouble ,nice on a ramp for #'s but kind of unpredictable on a trail or going down steep steps .

 

hmm, will strongly consider that. i was a bit unsure about them, however, always thought they were a decent upgrade. (revolvers)

Still got my mind wandering as to shackle reversal or not, leaning towards it still. either way, it is same amount of work as i am putting all new spring/shackle mounting hardware on from scratch.

 

There is a story running around here where I live in Moab Country, 'bout a guy who was coming down a steep incline in his Jeep. Jeep dies and he begins to step on the brakes to slow him down. The reversal and the way the brakes work with it caused the front of the Jeep to begin to hop. More brakes, more hop, and he comes bouncing down the mountain. From what I understand the guy was pretty hurt as he hit a berm at the bottom, really messed up the Jeep. I am not sure it is a true story, but I trust the source. Talked me right out of a reversal and if you think about the forces it makes sense. I have a 2.5" OME YJ stock shackle locations and wheelbased suspension under my '72 and have been driving it on and off road for 2 years now. My Jeep rides like a mid 90's wrangler on the road and down in the Moab it crawls over 3.5-4+ trails very well. It has out-performed my expectations, and is probably the best bang for buck improvement in my CJ. I got all my stuff from parts, mike, parts. I think he might even be in Cali...

 

Everybody eventually seems to take off the revolvers. Save yourself the step.

You have heard all the cons of the reversal. Now compare that list to the cons of the standard set-up. Which list has more cons?

 

that's just it, there is NO more set up for a reversal vs. normal for me. i'm putting on all new parts including shackle mounts and spring hangers, either way, they are getting welded on...and i've heard a couple positives and a couple negatives.

i'm still up in the air about this.

so, what about any other tips/do-overs on swapping to yj?

 

hey wick ,i'm going to be working on efi'ing my buddys bronco tomorrow and my jeep will be out if you want to crusie up to the big Fallbrook ,,, you can drive mine and hang out ....its not to hard to find....... let me know.....steve