Rust in hidden spots

So, I'm rebuilding the tub and removing/replacing what I can get at, but I keep chasing rust down. Now I discover that the rust extends up the side braces under the dash. Does anyone have ideas about how to treat rust where you can't actually GET to it? Like a spray that I can flood the area with? I'd hate to go to all the work of replacing the entire floor only to have the braces rust out next year. I'm aware that a fiberglass tub would solve the problem, but dang it, I really like the metal work, and it's an excuse to buy more tools!

Another issue is the horrendous cost of those "rust converter" fluids. $25 for a quart? Yikes!

 

I don't know how much help it is, but there are a few products out there to coat the inside of steel bicycle frames that might do the trick. I don't know much about them and I'm sure someone else has a better solution for Jeep related rust, but it might work!

 

I think you have three things you can possibly do.

First, you can treat with a rust converter like Naval Jelly that will change the red rust (hematite) to black iron oxide (magnetite). This is the same stuff as black oxide coating. The classic converter is phosphoric acid, but there are some organic phosphorus compounds that will convert rust. These could be sprayed in with a squirt bottle.

Next, you can use a wax rustproofing, like Waxoyl. This stuff is a waxy compound suspended in some kind of solvent. Typically it's squirted into doors and rockers as a preventative measure. Popular in England. Surprisingly expensive. One possible substitute is bar oil - google and you'll find some links.

Finally, you can spray in a paint product like Rust Encapsulator, thinned down. You'd have to come up with some kind of pump spray and wand to get it into the cavities, butI'd think it would be effective.

 

timgr,
I haved used a liquid product called OSPHO before. I believe it is the first option you mentioned it works very well. Except I think you have to paint over it after application. Gonna check the bottle to see if you can leave it bare. I do think it is phosphoric acid and converts the rust just as you say.

 

Yes, you're right, a black oxide coating (or Phosho?) isn't a very weatherproof surface on its own. It would certainly be more durable if it were coated with something - I think it could be either waxy/oily or some kind of paint. Somehow the black iron oxide is more benign than the red oxide though. Red oxide is self-perpetuating. Certainly red oxide swells and exposes fresh metal to the air; this is what makes rust flaky - that may be the only difference. (this is why they tell you to cut out all body cancer; any cancer left behind will promote more rust.) Black oxide is more like aluminum oxide in that it coats the surface and seals the metal from further exposure to oxygen.

The bar oil referenced above supposedly contains both an oily/waxy component and some kind of phospho compound. I have not used it, but it's said to neutralize any surface rust by conversion.

 

i used some por-15 on my frame project. i really like the stuff. you paint it on, or thin it out and spray it. you can put it directly over rust, or on bare metal. either way, there is a metal ready spray when that goes with it, preps the metal, then rinse it off, let it dry, then put on the por-15. then you paint over it if you want.

very cool stuff. when it covers the rust, it completely encapsulates it and inhibits its possibility to develop any more...suposedly.

all my opinion here, don't know if that stuff will help you or not, but definitely worth looking at their site.
http://www.por15.com/

 

I'm new hearer, coming out of a history of restoring old VW buses.

What we found on those scary unibodys was using a product like picklex on the spots you just can't get. this is where mechanical removal wasn't possible. It also is good to use where it was as well.

I will find a thread and edit this post to show testing done over years on all the stuff you 'paint on rust'.
Most were exactly the same as each other, and including cost as a consideration.

Masterseries, Rust Encapsulator, POR paint, were all about the same, assuming prep was good.
On zero prep, the POR products lost the edge over the others, and is less flowable to annoying spots.

I like masterseries and rust encapsulator, the masterseries has higher build.

It's all in the prep though to try and get rid of the rust for best results, mechanical as possible, then chemical (pickelex is good and subjectively cheap), or chemical only in that darned spot, followed by a flowable product in the tough spots, and your choice in the accessible areas.

There are many other products like pickleex, why I like it it doesn't require a wash step, doesn't hurt non metal parts, and is easy while being subjectively cheap to the POR removal pre-step products.

POR is probably the toughest paint, but you're dammed if you need it off in a few spots to fix something later... I saw that stuff hold an entire 356B together once, floor was topcoated both sides over rust with it..Floor kept rusting and the POR WAS the structure... but that was a hide job, not a repair.

 

Yes, have found your reply and findings are on target for sure.

Have found that use of our Plasma cutter to remove the rusted area(s).... then tac-weld in another good piece of meta (tac-welding first avoids improper fit, etc. Ten I run a bead with our Mig unit.... After a solid bead.... then we grind it down and keep refilling as needed to get a smooth finish on the perimeter of the 'newer metal. I don't concern myself of being perfct...mainly solid and secure is priority. Have had good efforts thus far and also, helping any and all that have asked to use my equipment thus far. Using Harbor Freight for Plasma Cutter and Lincoln Welder for same as well as Plasma cutter have also proved reliable too!

Hope this is of help? Now, heading to the National Forest for the weekend.... Gunner

 

Yes, the POR is an easier way to get by.... if that is your motivation... go for it and then plan for future tub R/R.... or as we have done and yes it can involve alot of work... but I have cut out all I had concern with and then tac-welded my bracing into place as needed and then securely mig welded same.... then went at overlaying into place the facia as needed... it did NOT look pretty as new but it was SOLID and even better than new!... I think it was worth it and my dash is water secure now!

Just think about it? Again... I admit it was labor intensive... but it was My labor involved!

Chose your path! Either way...get your Jeep back on the dirt!

Gunner... good luck with the task!

 

I tried to Google "pickleex" and found nothing. Anyone got a source?

 

http://www.picklex.com/

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/index.php/o-t--t-131753--.html
thread on testing done informally

 

Thank you all for your replies. I'm doing some research now. As it turns out, the problem is less of an issue than I thought. The "inaccessible" situation changed when I realized I had to remove the metal that was in the way. See the 80 repair/rebuild thread under "builds".

All in all, I'm amazed at how easy and fast simply replacing the sheet metal is. I'm just planning on removing anything that gets in my way. Now, If I can just find a few bent up hoods.....

 

I am going to try this stuff out on assembled axles, engine, and frame this late spring/summer.

http://www.safestrustremover.com/Restos.asp

I might be converted form the picklex20 as it does not remove rust like this product is showing.