Easiest granny 4 speed to use with 258 and dana20

Which is the easiest 4 speed to swap into an intermedate cj6? Has 6cyl, 3speed, dana 20 now. I was thinking T-18 or sm465. I know Jeep used a t18 but had like 14 diff. versions. So which one do I look for? Can I use a ford t18 with a t-176 belhousing? If this was a :v6: I'd know what to do but don't know much about the 258. Let the edumacation begin!

 

Cost no object, Ford T-18 with an adapter kit. Yes, you can use the T-150 or T-176 bell with a Ford T-18 http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_amc.htm The Muncie transmissions will be harder, http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/465_to_amc.htm requiring machining of the T-150/T-176 bell. Ford T-18s are easy to find at junk yards too. A Ford T-19 or NP435 are also possible.

 

The '77-'79 Jeep CJ T-18 would be wide ratio and require no adapters for you application; well, factory adapters, anyway.

There were 258cid J-truck applications that used a wide ratio T-18 with 1" adapter on the front and Texas pattern on the back, but I'm not 100% sure what models or years.

 

I'd define easiest to include the availability of the transmission. The Ford T-18 should be easy to source. A transmission from either of the applications Clint cites could be hard to find.

The 258 J-truck app uses the T-15 bell, and has a longer OAL than the Ford T-18 with adapter. This too raises difficulty because of the shorter rear drive shaft required. However, it's the same OAL as the '72-76 CR T-18 in a CJ, so the length is manageable. All the FSJs (J-trucks/Wagoneers/Cherokees) from the appearance of the 258 (mid 1970) to the end of the 'great transmission era' (1979) would qualify. Most were V8s though ... pretty big vehicle for an I6 in that era.

Of course, using a 2WD transmission with a kit requires R&R of the transmission main shaft, so that raises the difficulty level some.

 

Find a T-18A from a CJ5 or CJ7, it is basically a bolt-on job. Only need a new rear drive-shaft and to relocate the skid-plate

 

Here are how the #'s break down for the transmissions that I am considering for the CJ6. I hate T15 because of the wide pattern between the gears. If I wind up keeping the CJ6 these are the options I am considering later down the road.
T15 Jeep 1-3.00 2-1.83 3-.00 R3.00

T18 Jeep 1-4.02 2-2.41 3-1.41 4-1.00

T18 Ford 1-6.32 2-3.09 3-1.69 4-1.00 R7.44

NV3550 ratio 1-4.01 2-2.33 3-1.39 4-1.00 5-.78 R3.57

 

Coby, if you wanted more of a choice in ratios, you could also consider the Borg-Warner T-19. It came in 3 variants: 6.32:1 1st, like the T-18, 4.02:1 1st, like the close ratio CJ T-18, and a 5.1, 3.0, 1.8, 1 model. It's stout like the T-18, except it has a synchromesh 1st gear.

 

Ford T18 is the easiest. The Jeep T18 and ford both bolt up the same. The difference is the internals. While they can have the same gear ratios, the bearings in the Jeep trannies vary and make it a pain to get the input shaft and synchros set up correctly. The Jeep CjJ T18's are rare, in my experience, The Ford trannies are consistant. Besides, the Ford trannies are much easier to find. Scout T18's will/can be made to work, but need a bunch of machine work and mods . A least the one I saw swapped in did.

 

I found a cj t18 for mine. With a d20 on the back for $500 bucks. And got the bellhousing.

I'd try to find a T18 from a jeep cj first, then a close second a ford. But to use the Ford, you will need to change the input shaft. So a tranny rebuild is needed.

But both versions would be good.

Not too familer with a T19. But Novack has some real good tranny information.

 

Thanks all.

I'm not holding my breath on a Jeep t18 from a cj5 but that would be nice!.

If I go J truck, it has to be one with a 6 cyl. t-18 70-79? Sounds like the v8's are diff. Isn't my three speed in 75 a T15, so wouldn't this work with a J truck t18 just a little longer over all? It's a cj6 so length isn't a problem probably as long as I don't have to hack the floor. How do I tell if it's a granny t18 or close ratio?

If I go with a Ford T18, I'll have to get a novak kit for the dana20 but is the input shaft right, or do I need to get a diff. input shaft as well to run with my t176 bell housing? Looks like there's a short shaft for a ford in the classifieds now. Do I run a stock t-176 clutch etc. then?

 

Years ago when I was running a 73 Scout II, a friend claimed he ran an AMC 304 as a direct replacement for the IH 304. I never saw the swapped in engine but he was running a T19 with a D20 like my Scout had.Like I said, I never saw the swapped in engine but he was driving it around.
Later, another buddy picked up a '71 or '72 Scout that had the T19 and D20 mated up to the factory AMC 232. They were a transition between the 80 and 800 series and the Scout IIs, so they were kind of odd but that would be an easy swap if you could find that model Scout.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.

 

The FSJ T-18 used with a V8 has a very long input shaft. These vehicles use a 5" long spacer between the transmission and the T-15 bell.

From this article http://www.jeeptech.com/trans/t18.html

 

Yes, the input shaft is right. You'll need to change the main shaft.

You can't use the T-176 clutch disk, since the input shaft diameters are different. You need a T-18 disk.

 

But you can pick up those FSJ t-18s cheap and do a short shaft conversion on them to get a T-18 that will fit in a 5. I picked mine up for $50. Total cost to convert and rebuild it was $300 including the transmission.

 

Where do you get the short shaft conversion, I'm assuming you can't use a short ford shaft in the jeep t18? Some one told me the short shaft conversion from novak was a ford shaft with diff bearings etc? does that sound correct?

WOW! that is long!

We have a pretty good junk yard here before I go hunting tell me if I'm looking for the right stuff.

J truck or waggy with 4 speed and a 6cyl (so no 5" spacer 70-79 with dana20)
Does the J truck have the right addapter for dana 20 should I snag that even if it's the long one? will it work with a new novak main shaft or just get the whole msin shaft/ addapter from them?
or
Ford truck with t 18, (70ish-mid 80's? )
or
CJ with T18

Thanks this is really helping!

 

oops double post.

 

Short shaft kit sans bell housing.

http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=207&rn=1442&action=show_detail

 

Yes, you can use the Ford short shaft with the Jeep transmission. That's what the Parts Mike kit is. Potentially you can use a used Ford input shaft, but there are some possible bearing size issues that I'm not sure of the details of. Nickmil has covered it in previous posts.

<edit> Note this only applies to the wide ratio (6.32:1 1st) T-18s. The close ratio T-18s used in the Intermediate CJs have gears with different tooth counts, and the WR parts will not fit.

All the FSJs with manual transmissions before 1980 used the Dana 20. It's a bolt-up deal. Use your Dana 20 or the one that's bolted to the transmission. All the Jeep T-18s before 1980 will need no transfer case adapting.

 

Hey guys, I might have just lucked out, posted an add and someone called with in 12hours and said they had a T18 6:32 first gear for sale out of a CJ! The guy sounds like he has a bunch of other Jeep parts also so what should I get?
How do I check to see if it has the 6:32 1st, reverse should be over to the right and up? should also have texas pattern on the rear with 6 spline main shaft and a 7.43" front shaft.
And what bell housing do I need? is the stock bellhousing for this Jeep t18 the same as a t-176 or a T14? I think my stock 3 speed should be a T14 for a 75 cj6 with a 6cyl so this should bolt right up?
I'll see if he has the stock t18 floor plate as well.
Sorry to ask so many questions but my brain is a little full right now.R)


Tim and others thanks so much for the help

 

I don't think the shift pattern is different - all from this era have reverse up by 3rd IIRC. The shift pattern changeover happened around 79-80, so it could be different ... the changeover date as been discussed on www.ifsja.org/forums but I'd have to search. The CR T-18 will have a plate adapter next to the T-15 bell. Not sure what bell the WR T-18 uses in a CJ, but Novak says it uses no plate adapter next to the bell. The easiest way to verify ratio is to count the teeth on the input gear or count the inpututput turns in 1st.

Yes, yes, not sure about the input shaft length.

The T-14 bell is the same as the T-15, but I don't think it will work with this transmission unless you have the plate adapter. You'll have to see it and report to us.

The '76-on floors are entirely different from an Intermediate, so they won't help your swap. Floor plates from 72-75 CJ-5 with the 258 and CR T-18 would be ideal though. I'd take a set if they are available.

I could also use a set of good Intermediate taillights (the 'last round taillight' shown here http://www.film.queensu.ca/cJ3B/Dating/Taillights.html ), the 304 Jeep "V8" badges, and some other stuff that's probably too heavy to ship (CJ-6 roll bar, half cab, draw bar).

Glad I could help :tea: