Opinions, what first?

Thanks for the clarification on the different Jeep T18's, TIMGR. As stated, the Ford T18's are very available. Not so sure about availability of the wide ratio Jeep T18's. For a Jeep that sees trail and freeway time, I think the Tera Low set would be a good compromise. Unfortunately cost is an issue. Ultimately, $888 = $1,000 when you are done, just like everything else.

 

Timgr, just to be clear, when you say 'floor plate', are you referring to the shifter cover on the hump? Is it just a matter of clearing out for the shift pattern? I knew about the driveshaft length. Are you referring to the 'mounts' on the crossmember? If so, those should be easy to figure out.

Also, if this T-18 is currently mounted to a 4.2L without an adapter, shouldn't it bolt right up to my 304 without an adapter? Just want to make sure before I buy it and get into expensive adapter plates and stuff.

Thanks again everyone...

 

Maybe I missed it .
But is the tranny bad now?

IMHO.

The problems you mentioned on the trail could be easily fixed.

The real problem is those axle gears.
They are just to high thats why you arent getting up the hill.
No torque.

Fix this first and then see what you got may suprise you.
Look at Novak's knowledge site and you can pick reasonable gearing for your tires.

Do the gears and lockers.
You cant go wrong with this.


On the tranny pick it by driving type and style.
Not just to fix a gearing issue.

A granny gear will help only when crawling.
But my hunch is your missing out on the powerband of your motor in all gears because of the 3.07's

I have had more than one buddy complane about no power with his 35's
Had them come over and put on an old pair of 29's I have and drive around for the day.
They are always shocked how much better it runs.
If you can try that and see what it drives like.
4.10's sound about right from here.

 

$888 threw me off at first, too. But there is no way you could regear both axels, put in a trans and lockers for that.

I got a discount through the local club I'm in.
I paid $600 for my tera low kit, $200 to rebuild/machine the d20 with new bearings/gaskets and install the tera low, and $20 for an extra d20 since i didnt want to take my jeep out of service.
Thats $820 with a freshly, professionally rebuilt case, in my hands walking out the door of the shop.

 

The terra low dana 20 rebuild is not easy. You have to grind the case to clear the new gears and need to know how to set up gears to make it work right. I took mine to a professional and had it done. The great thing is you eliminate your gear overlap with the terra low. In stock trim I had 5 effeective gears with my T-18 and the stock 20. With the terra low I get 7 effective gears which gives me a lot more options on the trails.

effective gears means more then a 20% difference in gearing. In stock trim this is 1-low, 2low/1high, 3low/2high, 4low/3high, 4high. in this case 2low and 1high are geared almost the same and can be considered the same gear.

With the terralow the gear spread is much greater and gives you more choices on the trail. I actually set down and calculated it out in a spread sheet. The difference is pretty amazing.

 

One thing that might help, too would be a heavier flywheel. That is whether you change to 4.10's or 4.11's or not. A heavier flywheel helps with stalling conditions.:hurrican:

 

Not sure how much floor rework will be needed for a '79. The earlier Jeeps require a lot of changes, since the T-18 is much larger (and heavier) than the three speeds, so you need to cut and fab to make room under the floor. Certainly you'll have to change the way that the trans mounts to the crossmember, move the crossmember, likely both. You'll probably have to lengthen the transfer case shifter mount, since the transfer case will move back some.

The bellhousing from the 4-speed will match your engine - the bell patterns of the 258, 304, 360, 401 are all the same. You may or may not be able to use your bellhousing and clutch parts, depending on what the trans actually is. Probably need a different pilot bushing.

 

Holy crap! Looks like the T-18 is out of the picture for right now. For some reason I got the impression in the past that it's pretty much a 'drop in'.

Guess I was WWWWWAAAYYYYYY off.

4.10s, here I come!!! The only problem is, while I have the diffs open, might as well add lockers and while I'm adding lockers, might as well change to 1 piece shafts in the rear and add lockouts in the front and while I'm adding shafts and lockouts................$1000+, here I come!!!

Oh wait, maybe I should do the tera low if that is the case.........Arrrrggghhhh!!!!

The joy of jeeping. Wouldn't it be cool to have unlimited funds?

Thanks for the advice guys. I really do appreciate it!

 

I don't think so. It would take all the challenge out of it.

 

Ditch the 3.07's. That's the biggest factor right there. While changing gears then put in 1 piece shafts in the rear. If you can afford it do the locker install at the same time. If you put in a locker I'd say one piece axles are almost mandatory. The locker puts much more stress on the shafts than an open or limited slip.
Then I'd drive it for a while and then decide what to do from there. You may not need to change the trans or modify the transfer case at that point, or you might decide to. I'd also take a close look at safety equipment like roll cage and recovery equipment. I'd also look at overall condition of the vehicle and see if anything really needed attention. Nickmil

 

:iagree:I know a lot of people that spend their money on upgrades when they really should be spending it on making it safe first. Brakes are a good thing.

 

JMO - if it were mine, I would not put a lot of money into a CJ AMC 20. I'd look around for some intermediate (72-75) axles first... they had a 3.73 ratio standard (pretty common) and 4.27 optional (less common, but better). For the front, you can put your knuckles on the intermediate axle and then everything bolts in, just like stock. For the rear axle, you'll have to have the spring pads moved to the same location as the 20 axle, but that would be maybe $50 for welding and another $20 for new spring pads. You'd still be way ahead of converting the gears in your existing axles ($$), and not need to consider 1-piece axles.

Plus a lot of these flanged 44s came with a Trac-Loc LSD, which will work ok if you put new clutch plates in it. There are a lot of options for lockers and LSDs for the 44 too ... many more than the 20.

 

1, 4, 3, 2

 

I installed a T`18 4 speed in my Cj last year. I used a Jeep tranny. If I did it again I'd find a Ford tranny.. The mod to the floorboard wasn't much, and easy to fab a new cover..Still the best mod I have done so far IMO.. The stock 3 speed just will not go slow enough even in low range IMO..

 

ON the T18 swap..........

I've got a 6.321st from a 79 cj I'm going to put behind a 304 with a T150. It's not hard. For my setup, the bellhousing will need one hole drilled and a stud put in. The clutches are the same, but the pilot bearing needs to be replaced. The T18 and T150 have similar tranny crossmember mounting points. I think they even come predrilled for both, but I"m not sure of that.

I called Partsmike (www.partsmike.com) and got all the stuff, and the info on how to do it, for under 50 bucks, shipping included.

So call him and see what he says.

But you might have to address the driveline issue. I don't know how the shafts will change or if they will move enough to cause you to get new driveshafts made.

But what would I do in your case?

First, I'd find out what the actual costs and needs are for the tranny swap.

Second I would change gears by swaping axles. Get a D44 out of a late cj with a 4 banger, They come stock with 4.10's I believe. That would be a simple, bolt in upgrade you should be able to do for under 200 bucks or so. For a few dollars more, add on disc brakes in the rear. You could also pick up the front D30 with matching gears for aroud another $100 or so. That would come with discs.

So for 300 you could swap in the axles. Now I'd go find a "lunchbox" type locker (the Aussie gets a lot of good reviews) for around $250 and axle and swap them in.

SO for $800, you get two axles, geared to 4.10, with lockers. Disc brakes for the rear will run another $100 or so.

Depending on the tranny of the donner D30/D44, you might even come up with a driveshaft combination that will work and avoid that expense. At least it's worth a try.

 

(1) 4 banger axles will most likely be 5.38 or 4.27 ratio not 4.10

(2) You might be able to find the disc caliper brackets for $100, figure another $200 for
the rest of the parts. Minimum. I doubt you can buy the new MC you'll need
(not rebuilt) for much under $100.

(3) All of the NT D30's I've come across have been 3.73 ratio, although I'm sure there
were other's available. 3.73 seem to be the most common.

 

I think he means the axles from a 151 or 150 4-banger. Pretty sure those would be 4.10s ... I didn't know they used the 44 though; seems possible - Jeep went back to the 44 for the last couple years of the Wagoneer.

<edit> Just checked Jeeptech, and it says this: "Some CJ-7s with the Borg-Warner Quadra-Trac transfer case came with a 30 spline, one piece shaft, offset, narrow track Dana 44. The other exception is in 1986, when CJ production was coming to a close AMC 20s were in short supply, so they used wide track Dana 44s in some of the '86 models. Bolt on compatible with any '76-'86 CJ, but wider than earlier narrow track AMC 20s. Use of the Dana 44 in 1986 began somewhere between serial numbers ending with 049379 and 054173. The axles were flanged and 30 spline. Common ratios were 2.73 and 3.31." Nothing about 4.10s though. If they existed, they'd be wide track, which isn't a bad thing if you change the front axle too. In 1986, the relevant engine would be the AMC 150 4-cylinder.

The 4.27 ratio was optional from 1972-75 in the CJ. My '73 CJ-5 had 4.27 axles... true, the 3.73s are more common - my CJ-6 has 3.73 axles. The 4.27 axles are out there though, somewhere.

 

The wide track Dana 44 ( or "late model CJ 44" Aallison was referring to) was used one year only in a CJ. 1986, and only part of the year when they started running out of AMC 20's at the end of CJ production. These are rare as hen's teeth and bring a premium price when you can find one. Parts like axle shafts are hard to find as you can imagine. It's actually easier to find a Scout 2 Dana 300 than to find the partial year Dana 44. Many people take a Scout 2 axle and shorten down the driver's side tube and shaft to build a Wide Track 44 the same width as the AMC 20 with a centered pinion. Works quite well but if you can't do it yourself it can run into money. Nickmil

 

Sorry for the confusion. I'll explain a little more from my understanding.

I know where a stock 4 cyl. cj7 is right now. It has stock gears, either 4.10's or 4.27's. I don't really remember because I went with 4.56's and it's been awhile. But either way, it was in the low 4.xx. Yes, it is a late 86 with a Dana 44 rear. And a matching D30 Front.

The spring perches in a wide track and a narrow track are the same. This should be a bolt in for what I assume is a 79 cj5 since that was what the orgional question was bout. At least I assumed it was.

Converting a D44 from drum to disc can be done with mostly junkyard parts. I have a front D44 out of a J20 that uses Chevy parts. The matching rear 60 uses the same brake parts. I believe I've seen the bolt on parts to convert from drum to disc for not a lot of money. Less than $50 bucks. I don't have the information here (might at home) because I already have disc on all four so I might have discarded it.

In Florida I've seen D30/D44 axles from a late cj go begging for a home. I can post up next time I see one if you guys are interested.

I understand you guys are all about the pre 76 cj's and such. But I believe the orgional post was for a 79.

FWIW, you can swap a late 90's Isuzu Rodeo rear axle in. It's a Dana 44, with disc's and is slightly wider than a WT axle. You need to change the spring perches. It takes some fabrication skills but it can be done fairly eaisly.

But it seems we are getting off topic from the orgional question. I'll look at the house and see what I can find to help the post out and stay on topic.