Shackle Angle w/reversal?

Ok, I'm confused. Last weekend I visited with "Patrick" from this board, and his father and brother.....all early 5 owners, and all their Jeep's are awesome! I went to them for advice on my CJ-6 and they all commented that the shackle angles were bad, as they were angled toward the axle. They explained that this hinders axle movement and creates a rough ride because as the shackle travels through its movement, it has to "jack" up the weight of the Jeep as it moves. This makes perfect sense to me, and his father Tom's Jeep also has a shackle reversal on it with the shackles angled away from the axle just slightly, and he has many miles of trouble free driving on it, and he says that it is fantastic on the highway...smooth, stable, no wander, etc.

That being said, and I do agree with their assessment, why did the instructions that came with the shackle reversal show a picture of how the new setup should look like and the shackle angle is toward the axle? Even their website shows them this way....in fact I find more photos with the shackles angled toward the axles as opposed to away. While every stock Jeep you find has the shackles angled away from the axle, just as Patrick and his family explained to me they should be. I am confused....please advise!

Thank you!

p.s. Patrick - Thanks for all the great advice and the show and tell on your Jeeps! The only reason I posted this is because I went to the website and they showed pictures of the shackles the way my Jeep currently sits. I agree with you guys though! Just wondering why the instructions were the opposite?!?!

 

Agar--I'm wondering what you and Patrick mean by shackle angled away from axle? Do you mean the top of shackle is further toward the rear of vehicle than the bottom where the spring attaches? What is the ideal angle? Not 90 degrees perpendicular right?? just wondering--Mike

 

By angled "away" from the axle, we meant the bottom where the spring attaches being further away than the top of the shackle.

In all the research I've done on this subject, I've determined it's a "tastes great/less filling argument." While it is true that angling the shackle away from the axle will improve ride quality and promote "smoother" movement of the axle, all is not perfect. It also promotes brake dive (which shackle reversals induce anyways). The shop that set me up has done many shackle reversals and they've set them up both ways. They've settled on angling the shackle toward the front axle so that the braking is more predictable. Yes, the ride may suffer, but it's still much better than with the shackle in front.

 

What causes brake dive is the same thing that gives you the smooth ride.......especially on bumpy trails. I angled the bottom of my shackle towards the rear, slightly. I'm happy. With discs up front the dive is predictable and you get used to it.

 

I agree. Either way, the ride and handling is better than stock. To be honest I feel the biggest concern with the shackle reversal is the clearance with the fender. I've got enough lift to run 35's (Rubicon Express 4.5" lift, 2.5" wide springs), but unless I trim the front fenders or run a body lift, I'm stuck with 33's. And, my axle is forward ~1" compared to stock.

 

I agree. I'm running 35's and even with a 4" lift and a 2 1/2" body lift I had to cut the fenders front and rear to clear the tires.

 

May be that the photo's were taken with Jeep lifted.
Mine are angled just off perpendicular with the jeep's weight on the springs and just forward of center with the jeep lifted on jack stands (or were with the prior springs . . . we'll have to see how we do w/ the new ones).

 

So is the general concensus that shackle reversal is the way to go with our Jeeps. I have been thinking about doing this, but have read good's and bad's about them. That, and I have yet to find one that is bolt on since I don't have a welder. I know someone that could weld it on, but it would be a pain to do, but I'm still looking.

High5

 

I choose not to after much debate.
Could have didnt.
I have rode in plenty of jeeps and others with both.

Not worth it.

IMHO.

 

One of the best conversions I've done to my Jeep. I used tha Warrior kit and modified it using new shackle hangers I bought from 4 Wheel Parts HD. I didn't like the Warrior shackles.

 

I've had it for a couple years now and hate it. Going back to front shackles as soon as the JEEP can get some down time. A non-Jeepin' buddy of mine sarcastically told me one time "If you would've just left well enough alone, you wouldn't have this problem right now." Meaning, for all the time and money we spend to "upgrade," it sometimes may have worked better the way it left the factory.

I can't remember if this shackle inverted fore or aft, but this is what happens when you don't get the angle just right:


Here's what happens to the D18 when the axle moves all the way aft on soft springs:


This is the general view of the JEEP you'll become accustomed to without a long travel front driveshaft: