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Darn Jeep !

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Thunderpig, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. Aug 26, 2007
    Thunderpig

    Thunderpig Member

    Parachute, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    259
    I've been away from the forum for a couple months because I'm so frustrated with my Jeep. Just now starting to get in the mood to work on it some more, but I need help.

    Recap. March of 2007, I got my engine rebuilt by a local shop known to many mechanics to do good work. I installed it myself and hooked it up. It fired right up at idle but ran rich. I found a hole on the intake manifold which I forgot to plug and then plugged it. Ran great at idle in the garage for the initial break in. Changed the oil. Set timing and replaced points. Timing light showed that it runs best at about 15 degrees before TDC. Took it out on a trial ride. Calm easy drive of about 30 minutes. It lacks power. It has a bit of a knock after it warms up and when you have a load on it. Engine temp is perfect. Reset Carburetor according to Weber DGEV specs, to no avail.
    Recheck of compression shows 120, 118,120,120. Distributor will only go in one way! (Can't rotate 180).

    From reading other recent posts: vacuum leaks are checked by spraying carb cleaner or starting fluid on the vacuum system connections and listen for rpm changes right?

    Questions:
    Can off timing cause a knock?
    Can too rich or lean cause a knock?
    Vacuum leak?
    Bad engine rebuild?

    Next step? Dynamite? CliffJumping?

    Thanks

    Jim
     
  2. Aug 26, 2007
    jason74

    jason74 61WillysCJ5 198V6 4sp mnc

    Los Angeles
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    From what I've been reading 15 btdc may be too far advanced. 5-10 degrees seems to be the norm. The knock, especially under load is probably pre-detonation in the cylinder. U may try changing the spark to the 5-10 degree range and adjusting the carb afterward.
     
  3. Aug 26, 2007
    Thunderpig

    Thunderpig Member

    Parachute, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    259
    There is not enough clearance on the distributor bracket to bring the timing to 5-10 degrees. Does this mean the timing gear is on wrong?:?
     
  4. Aug 26, 2007
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    8,360
    Keep in mind that he's in New Castle Colorado.... Higher elevation = more advance...
     
  5. Aug 26, 2007
    kiowamtp

    kiowamtp Member

    DFW
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    618
    Hook up a vacuum gauge and adjust your timing that way. My timing is set around 10BTDC with a vacuum gage. You can also diagnose alot with the gage. I have most of the stuff if you need to borrow anything I am down the road at Fort Carson. I would be up there to help rather quick, but am deploying in a week and the family time is mucho important right now. Never know, PM me your phone number if I get a short notice break I'll call and see if you are around.

    I also slightly modified my bracket by elongating the notch with a drill press. It gave me a bit more adjustment.

    You running electric fuel pump or mechanical?
     
  6. Aug 26, 2007
    Thunderpig

    Thunderpig Member

    Parachute, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    259
    I modified my bracket a bit too. Still not perfect though.

    I am running mechanical fuel pump. I did not have it rebuilt though. Just bolted it on. Worked fine on the engine before.
     
  7. Aug 26, 2007
    packrat2A

    packrat2A Member

    McAlester, OK
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
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    212
    You can pull the distributor out and move it ONE tooth (between the cam gear and the dizzy gear) at a time to get the housing into a position where the timing will set where you want it to. I'm not sure which way you'd want to go, but it kinda sounds like thats what you need to do.
     
  8. Aug 26, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,474
    Kevin - he is on the other side of the state, not Castle Rock like your thinking ;) ...

    Jim - Been a while since I redid a 4cyl, but it sounds familure, you should be about 10 deg timing. If the distro will not turn to the point of getting there, you need to pull and restab it. It sounds like your a tooth or so off.
     
  9. Aug 26, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    9,221
    :? This is an F-head???

    I thought there's A tooth with an F-head. It's in or it's 180* out.

    But it's been a while since I've messed with one. Maybe I don't remember something that you guys know?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2007
  10. Aug 26, 2007
    Thunderpig

    Thunderpig Member

    Parachute, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
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    259
    Chuck,

    My distributor has what looks like a slightly offset regular screwdriver which fits into corresponding spot deep inside the engine. I don't understand how I can move it at all, let alone one tooth! Are you saying I need to take off the timing gear cover on the front and move the big timing gear one tooth?:?
     
  11. Aug 26, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Ok, it would seem I'm right, they're thinking of a V6 or another engine, not a Willys L or F-head. ;)

    You can't do what they're suggesting. :(

    I don't know what to suggest myself though.
     
  12. Aug 26, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,474
    Zimm - D100 of my FSM states (abbridged version):
    Number 1 Cyl to 5 Deg Mark - Stab Distro - Mount Rotor - Turn shaft till pointing to Number 1 plug terminal (about 5 o'clock position) with contact points just breaking - Move back and forth till drive lug locks in oil pump - slide down into place - rotate again till contact points just breaking and tighten it down....

    If you need me to I can scan the page in and send it to you.
     
  13. Aug 26, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Sparky is right - bad memory on my part :oops: had to look it up.
     
  14. Aug 26, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
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    Actually, yes you can, but it is a tad more involved.

    1. Mark where the distributor rotor points at 5* BTDC on the compression stroke.

    2. Draw yourself a diagram of where the distributor sits NOW.

    3. Remove the distributor, and shine a flashlight down into the hole in the block. Make a note of how the offset is situated.

    4. According to the FSM, the distributor drive slot in the oil pump should beat the 11 O'clock position, with the wider part of the shaft pointing toward the block.

    5. If your oil pump shaft is out of position, you will need to remove the oil pump all most all the way out of the block (disengage the drive gear from the cam) and turn the pump with a long straight-blade screwdriver.

    6. Reinstall the oil pump and the distributor, checking to see if the rotor is where you want it. If not, repeat step 5.

    HTH. :)
     
  15. Aug 26, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Mar 4, 2003
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    If you can not get it there, you might have to pull the timing cover off and verify the dots on the timing gears. Hopefully, someone else here with more current F head info can help you... The last F head I owned was when we were in HS together, the last I worked on was Dad's @ 10 years ago while they still lived in Craig.
     
  16. Aug 26, 2007
    Thunderpig

    Thunderpig Member

    Parachute, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
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    259
    Scratches Head:? Shouldn't be this hard. Spent 2 thousand on it in the last 6 months and can't get it to run.

    Tried to turn the rotor shaft 180... well because the screwdriver slot is offset of center. It won't even go in 180 degrees.
    Think I'll take in to a mechanic. If that don't work then I'll have a Jeep to sell.

    Thanks Guys for the input though. I'll try a little more before I give up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2007
  17. Aug 26, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Steve's instructions were exactly what I couldn't recall.

    Get your FSM out and go over it again. It's not that hard. :beer:
     
  18. Aug 26, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    No Zimm - you bring it here (or I come get it) and we make it work...

    Your not allowed to give up :)
     
  19. Aug 26, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    The distributor CAN'T go in 180* out because the slot is offset. Wait, let me take that back, it CAN go in 180* out, but only if the oil pump is 180* out also!

    The distributor and the oil pump can only go together one way, it is the relationship of the oil pump to the cam that is the important part.

    IIRC, when the timing marks on the gears are lined up, this is TDC.
     
  20. Aug 26, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Thanks Steve, like I said, my memory was fuzzy.
     
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