Warn Full Float/Front Hub conversion Question

On my '74 CJ-6 (304, T-18, D20, 3.73's), I would like to convert the rear axle to a full-floating setup with hubs, and I would also like to do the Warn treatment to the front axle as well (internally splined hubs, chromo axles, etc.).

Here are my questions:

1. I've heard that you can use Warn's brackets during this conversion to add rear disc brakes. Does anyone have any experience or info on this? Is there a front disc setup as well?

2. Do either of these conversions have an effect on track width.

3. Assuming that while in the process of these conversions, I would also be re-gearing and adding a traction device, am I already getting up high enough in dollars spent, that I would be better off buying an aftermarket axle (Either F/R Currie 9", or 9" Rear, Dana 44 Front).....no plans for Dana 60's).

I don't plan on hardcore off-roading. Just hunting, camping, and trail riding. I plan on 33 x 12.50's, but in the future may consider 35's, so I only want to do the axles once.

Thanks for any help!

 

I'm not an expert on the Ford 9", but there has been quite a lot of discussion about these axles on IFSJA. http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=038733#000001 I'd believe Scotty in the above post: for off-road you may as well go FF 14 bolt GM or keep the 44. One thing you can do to improve the rear 44 in an Intermediate is to replace the fairly weak Trac-Lock carrier with a much stronger Power-Lock, or one of the several aftermarket lockers. I have broken Trac-Locks and twisted the stock flanged axles, but i have not broken an axle.

 

I think your last statement says it all. Why do any of this then ?
If you have to flat tow a long distance, then the FF would come in handy; other than that, everything you currently have will be more than adequate.
ditto on ditching the Trac lock, if you have one, power lock much stronger.
The D44 flanged axles are strong as well; service the bearings before a problem develops and it'll last a lifetime.
my 0.2 worth

 

I totally hear what you're saying, and I agree. I do not plan on changing anything just for the sake of changing. I did want to re-gear, so I figured while I was in there, may as well make some upgrades. I realize that I may be overbuilding for my purposes, but you just never know. Every 4x4 breakdown I've ever experienced has been while hunting, and never while just trail riding. We encounter some pretty hairy stuff on them old logging roads! A friend of mine blew his Dana 30 with only a 4 cyl under the hood and 32's. It can happen. I would like to make it pretty capable off-road, perhaps good enough to run a 4 rated trail in Moab....which is why I mentioned the 35" tires being a possiblilty in the future.

For now, I do plan on driving it as is...I was just planning ahead, that's all.

 

okay, then a buildup might be necc based on your explanation above
driving habits can have a lot to do with breakage
most front axles leave this world thru too much air and a heavy foot
remember, you can break anything, if you try hard enough

 

There's also a D60-2 that was used in the mid-range GVWR J-trucks in pre-AMC days. It has flanged axles and a 5 on 5.5 pattern. You'd have to have it narrowed, and it's sought after, but it would still probably be cheaper than the built-up 9".

 

I'd re-use your rear housing and upgrade the diff to the locker/limited slip of your choice. I've seen lots of the Flanged axles with the splines twisted, but few actually broken. The Warn FF conversion is a great upgrade especially if you flat tow your Jeep. Warn does make brackets that will allow you to convert the rear to disc. You can use either Chev S-10 calipers in the rear if you don't need a parking brake or you can use Cadillac or Firebird/Camaro rear callipers if you need a parking brake. The Cadillac ones are better as they clamp much tighter. If you are using manual brake master cylinder, use organic pads as they will stop better but fade quicker. Rarely a problem on a light weight Jeep. If Power brakes then the semi-metallics work well. The FF kit does increase track width but not much. I'm thinking less than an inch on a side. Probably more like 1/2" or so.
I don't like the Ford 9" in a short wheel base Jeep. The 9" is a great axle but the pinion is way too low for a vehicle that already has U-joint angle issues. You could go reverse cut on the 9" but talking big bucks.
On the 30, if you're gonna spend that much money I'd just upgrade to a 44. There are companies out there that can supply you with a housing and axles for almost the cost of the Chromo axles for the 30. You get a bigger ring and pinion, stronger diff and housing, bigger u-joints, and if you use the Scout 2 Dana 44 outer axles, you can re-use your 30 knuckles, brakes, etc. or you can upgrade to the Warn hub conversion which is a great way to go. No more hub bolts working loose. The normal disc brake conversions that work with 25's, 27's, and 30's will work with the conversion with the right parts also. R&P sells a housing and axles (Dana 44) narrow track (about the same width as your current 30) for about $695 if I remember correctly. Prices may have changed though or will be different if you want chromo axles, gears already in it, etc. That gets you inner axles, new u-joints, outer Scout 2 axles, and a housing ready to set up your gears, put on your outers, and bolt in. They can be reached at 503-557-8911.

The biggest problem I see with spending money on the 30 is if you upgrade the axles, u-joints, and hubs, what's gonna break next? the spider gears, diff gears, or diff case. Don't get me wrong, the 30 is a great axle with care, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one if you're concerned about its longevity. Spend the money once, and not worry about it for a long time to come. Nickmil.

 

Great responses, everyone!

Is the pinion on the 9" still considered too low for the CJ-6 and its 104" wheelbase? I do reallize that while it is 20" longer than a CJ-5, in reality, 104" is still pretty short compared to full sized rigs.

If I had the factory 4.27 gearing, I would definitely be in a situation to just wheel it til it breaks. But, since I have the 3.73's, and am planning to go to 33's, it leaves me with a decision to make. Regearing is pricey, and I hate to spend bad money before I spend good money. I think I could live with the rear 44 for years to come, especially if I put the FF in it (I do plan on flat towing it....hunting, campin, Moab), but the 30 is what concerns me. Here's the deal....if I upgrade the 30, I know that I would be tempted to go to a wide track width, which now makes the narrow track rear 44 look even narrower. No matter which way I go, $$ will be big, just how big is the question. I am tempted to spend big $$ once, and be done with it, but then again big checks are tough to write!

Keep the suggestions coming! This forum is incredible....real world opinions based on real world experience, not opinions based on marketing or hype. Gotta love the internet!

 

Personally I would run it till it breaks, twice. FF is cool but expensive and I agree with Jim, unless you are going to be doing a bunch of flat towing( not just every once in a while) then it really would not be worth it.
Why do you think you need to go widetrac? I am just wondering.

 

Reasons for widetrac for me are both for looks and stability. I personally don't like it when the tire is tucked under the fender flare. However, that alone is not a reason to upgrade. I assume that the widetrac would also give the vehicle more stability, and that does appeal to me. As far as the flat towing goes, it will be towed to my hunting, camping, and some trail riding locations. I would be flat towing, not because I don't want to drive it on the highway....although more than a 100 or 200 miles in a 32 year old CJ is tough on both the mind and body. I would tow it to hunting locations so that we don't beat up the newer more expensive rigs, that don't fit on most old roads anyway.

 

If you are seriously thinking of running 35" tires, you'd be happier running min of 4.88 r&p. 5.38's would be even better. But I've gotta say, the mods you are proposing sound like rock crawlin more than hunting specs.

 

I hear what you're saying....it is very easy for the snowball effect to take place, and I definitely want to watch out for that. Where we hunt, we can get into some pretty hairy areas...roads that haven't been maintained in years, roads washed out due to rain, etc. We hunt in one area that is so rocky that it takes about 90 minutes to traverse one mile. Funny thing, due to the excellent traction on the rocks, you hardly even need to use 4wd, but you need LOTS of clearance. Then there are are areas that are so sandy, that you don't need anything other than stock suspension, but horsepower and lockers make a big difference.

I want to keep 35's as an option in the future....but not at this time. The reason I brought up the 35's, is cuz when I get around to axle mods/upgrades, I want to build stout enough to run 35's effectively, even if I never actually do go to 35's.

Due to a crack near the steering mount, and a loose pass side shackle mount, I am attacking safety and reliability first. Since the suspension and frame are being dealt with now, it makes sense for me to go ahead and put some suspension on at this time. So, I have decided to lift enough to get 33's under there. 33's allow me to get away somewhat with the 3.73's I have in there now thanks to the T-18 and its compound first gear. After the frame/suspension, I will attack reliability/driveability issues. The carb needs to be rebuilt, the master cyl on the hyd clutch needs to be replaced, and I really like the single wire hookup and performance of a DUI.

Now I am sure that after some time I will have to look at the axles, and even though it seems premature to ask the questions now, I am the type of guy that likes to really beat a dead horse before the money changes hands. I agree on the 4.88's, especially if I eventually go with an overdriven trans. If I discover that I tow it more often than not to our destination, I will forego the expense of an overdrive tranny. I definitely do not plan on any really radical changes that are irreversible. I want this thing to always look like a CJ-6, and not some moon buggy. I realize that my modification game plan is about 10-15 years out of style with all the advances the hard core crowd has pushed into the market, but then again, it should be more than enough for the wheeling I will do. When hunting, and the going gets especially rough, I can go to the ATV (where allowed), or just pack it out the old fashioned way on our backs, which is actually how we do it most of the time anyway. When it come to trail riding, if I can't get into a place unless body damage is imminent, I don't need to be going there....that doesn't mean that I don't want my rig to be more capable than the terrain I will subject it to. Basically, I want to overbuild for my needs....but not too overbuilt, if that makes sense.