lifted stock 65 cj has terrible tie rod angle...Help!!

Hi guys...could use some advise from a guru...and since I cant get a hold of Ghandi...I thought I'd try here instead. I aquired a 1965 CJ5 that the previous owner had lifted approximately 4 inches or so. He did a nice job and all looks good but the stock tie rods look off-angle to me. Can someone please tell me if I need to lower the pitman arm assembly? Or, is this called a bellcrank...that's what it looks like to me. If so, where can I find the part? Or...could the entire base unit be shimmed down from the frame? I was worried that if I dropped the whole bvracket that it would not be strong enough.
It has 31 inch tires on it and shimmies around somewhat when hitting bumps ect. (bumpsteer?)
There was a hydraulic steering stablizer brand new in a box that came with the jeep, but was never installed. After dry-fitting it, it too looks like the angle is out of kilter somewhat,,, (posiibly why it wasnt mounted and still in the box?)
Anyway, Im new to the jeep hobby and dont know a whole lot about the geometry.
Could someone please post some ideas? I read here and there that a dropped pitman isnt realy neceassry from a safety standpoint, but rather more to smooth out the wobbles?

Questions:
1. Can you please identify the front axle type?
2. Is the angle of the tie rods safe or is this normal?
3. Could a person simply drill out the rivots holding the central link that tied the tieds rods to the pitman arm and just shim it down and inch or 2?
4. Included was a new hydraulic steering stabilizer. Would mounting this solve all my problems or would it make it worse?
5. Has no power steering...would the stabilizer make it more difficult to turn?
6. Am I just crazy or should I just drive it as is and have fun?

Follow the links to the picture:
http://home.swbell.net/tape-rr/cj5.jpg
http://home.swbell.net/tape-rr/jeep.jpg
http://home.swbell.net/tape-rr/angle.jpg
http://home.swbell.net/tape-rr/mount.jpg
Thanks
Mike

 

From my experience with these Jeeps, that looks like more than a 4" lift spring.

 

My honest opinion is to ditch the huge lift springs, ditch the huge shackles, ditch the scary and unsafe brake line drop brackets, get stock or 1" lift springs, and then have fun. Safe fun. It will still wheel lights out. I am sure the guys and gals of this site would be glad to hook you up with the parts to do it.

 

Hi Mike, welcome from Ohio.

Don't panic! Sit down and have a frosty

That lift looks identical to the one on my '71. Looks like a Dana 27 axle...I think I can even see the 2, 7, and A at the 2 o'clock position.
That setup can certainly work AS IS if all the variables are accounted for. Here's a similar pic of my tie rods:



I'm able to cruise 75 MPH down the highway w/ one hand on the wheel & the other on a cellphone. I too was recommended to upgrade my steering to Saginaw a few years ago, but it's been enjoyable on & offroad as is for years.

One thing I did notice is that the bellcrank (it's not a pittman arm) should be pointed directly in front of the Jeep --at 90* to the front axle housing--when the wheels are straight ahead. Tough to verify in your pic, but it appears that the bellcrank is pointed slightly towards the driver's side. The factory service manual (FSM) tells how to adjust the toe-in to straighten 'er all out. Depending on where you are located, perhaps a kind soul here could assist you. Where you be?

 

I think it's more than 2". Look at the distance between the front axle and the bump stop - that looks like about 8" to me. IIRC the stock travel, brand-new from the factory, is about 4" with the ca 10 leaf stock springs.

I'm pretty much lined up with Cee Jay on this ... in particular the brake hose brackets are scary and have to go. You don't need that much lift to clear the 31" tires (actually you don't need any), and the breakover angle on a CJ is excellent even with saggy stock springs. IMO all you're doing with the stock setup by lifting more than a couple of inches is raising the COG, and changing the appearance. Plus, I'd guess with that much arch, those springs would give you a ride like a buckboard (maybe that's good - no toe-in trouble if there's no flex).

Hippo has made his Ross steering work with the lift, but he seems to be the exception. If you have any stpring flex as you drive down the road, the toe-in will change with the tie rod angle. The Saginaw box is a common upgrade; a one-piece tie rod is another good upgrade.

I'd be careful with this vehicle in the near term - when you buy a used car, you're often buying somebody else's problems. Possibly the previous owner wasn't happy with how his project turned out.

Otherwise, your Jeep looks very promising. Welcome from Boston!

 

This is a stock '73, just days off the dealer's lot. Stock heavy duty springs & shocks. The stock tires are 28-29" tall. Using the wheel diameter as a gauge, there's 5" from the fender edge to the tire. Subtract an inch or a little more from that for the 31" tire diameter, and stock should be about 4" from the fender edge. Again using the wheel as a gauge in this picture http://home.swbell.net/tape-rr/cj5.jpg that's more than 8" from the edge of the tire to the fender edge, more like 9" or 9.5". So, I'd say it's closer to a 4" lift.

 

Wow...I'm overwhelmed. Thanks so much for everyone giving me suggestions. I measured the top of the axle to the bottom of the bumpstop and it is exactly 8". Measuring from the top of the 31" tires to the bottom of the fenderflares is 71/2 on the fronts, and arou7nd 10' in the rear. I dont thinkl the flares are original unless they were made out of plastic back in 65
Everyone keeps warning me about the funky brake line adapters. They are pretty thin gauge angle iron. What would be an option?
If a person does the saginaw steering box swap, do you have to remove the engine to box in the frame? Also, the stock steering column would have to go I'd imagine....? then, factore in the limited space in my garage, I'd have to say going with the one piece tie rod setup could be my best option at this time, probably not the best option altogether....So then, is there a kit commercially available or does one have to scrounge up the parts from a donor vehicle?
Also, I asm assuming there is not a manufacturer out there currently producing a dropped bellcrank/mount? No one has mentioned this option yet...
I also checked the toe in and there is none after visually checking. As a matter of fact, i think it toes out if any at all. So I read on how to set some toe in, and all i can determine is to make a centerline around the tire and measure. But that method assumes that the wheels are currently pointing dead nuts straight ahead to start with. So where do you start tyo get the tires perfectly in line with the rears to start the toe in process? With a straight edge or something? A stringline? Laser? gasp....
Thanks again...all...please keep the ideas coming///

 

Me too. I'm not a fan of anything that's jacked up way high, but that's just me. Can't see where it's necessary and doesn't look too safe, in my narrow-minded opinion. Different strokes, as they say.