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Dana 25 Front Axle Overhaul

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by HellaSlow, Nov 27, 2024.

  1. Dec 1, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    Thank you! I was able to find one FLAPS that was only a 30 min drive away this morning that carried the seals. National 40576s. The cost was excessive but at this point I'm happy to be able to move the project along vs waiting a few more days before I can start up again.

    The National seals are VASTLY better engineered than the cheapo Omix seals. Happy to report they went in like a breeze! I was also able to get the pinion races installed this morning too!

    Feeling great.

    I'll definitely hit you up one of these days when I'm down in that area!

    As for OMIX, I really try NOT to order OMIX parts. Most of the parts order for this project was found at RockAuto and Torque King but there were a couple bits and pieces I went ahead and ordered from KaiserWillys since I couldn't easily find elsewhere. I figured these seals would be a small drop in the bucket but they've turned out to be a significant drop now haha.

    The other OMIX part I received from KW was a set of brake hold down pins/springs for the drums. Complete garbage and they'll also be returned. The pins were too short, they didn't fit through the holes in the brake shoes and the springs were too small! How they get away with manufacturing this junk and claiming it fits is beyond me.


    I had actually grown to like my local Advanced Auto Parts store but they are now unfortunately closing hundreds of stores and my local one is on the chopping block. Also seems like just recently they bought out Pepboys and they're already closing for some reason. Luckily auto part stores are plentiful in Los Angeles. I just have to promise myself to search rockauto's database for similar parts before breaking down and ordering from KW again.
     
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  2. Dec 1, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    Next question: When I removed the yoke and slid the pinion out, the oil slinger fell out before I could catch it so I didn't notice the original orientation. It's a conical washer shape so I was hoping someone could tell me which direction the slinger goes in.
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  3. Dec 2, 2024
    mikvar

    mikvar Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Frankenmuth, MI
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    I got all my replacement brake parts from Debella Jeep parts. Been really happy with them so far. http://www.debellajeepparts.com/
     
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  4. Dec 7, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    Got the knuckles installed this week! I tore the first set of seals the first time I tried because the linkage wasn't attached. Moved the knuckles too far and the edge of the inner knuckle chopped a big chunk out of the rubber. :lol: Live and learn haha. A new set was delivered the next day and it was only a $20 lesson. I also added the original "Spicer" tags to the back of the seal bolts.

    Glad to be making progress!

    IMG_0570.jpg
    IMG_0569.jpg
     
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  5. Dec 7, 2024
    Militarymetal

    Militarymetal Member 2025 Sponsor

    Gainesville, Florida
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    Very nice detail work! I really like the powder coating! Thanks for keeping us up to speed. Love to see progress.
     
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  6. Dec 9, 2024
    Tralehead

    Tralehead Member 2025 Sponsor

    Silverado, CA
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    And you didn't install studs in the knuckles because...? No, not talking about the king pins.
    Pretty sure I told you about a wheel coming off in the snowy mud up there in Gorman...
    Now go put studs in to make sure your spindles stay put!
    That glossy paint and shiny labels won't keep your wheels on!
     
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  7. Dec 9, 2024
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 ON SABBATICAL 2025 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
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    FinoCJ had the same issue on a CO trail run. He has a full write up and photos at his build thread.
    There's at least one other guy with a knuckle stud replacement thread, too.
     
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  8. Dec 9, 2024
    Jw60

    Jw60 New Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Trails end,...
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    It happened in the most random spot on that trail. I thought they were taking in the view.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    .
     
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  9. Dec 10, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    I initially didn't register that you were referring to THOSE studs since I had been working on my kingpin studs at the time haha. This mod had never really been on my radar till now! This Jeep will probably see limited trail use so I wasn't sure how dyer the need for these knuckle studs was gonna be initially.... But since the wheels are off it's gonna go on my list before it goes back together. :lol: Call it peer pressure LOL.

    I've spent the last 2 days reading all the posts I could find about the mod and it seems pretty straight forward. The one thing that doesn't sit right to me is having to grind down the face of the inner knuckle so the 3-9 o-clock heads don't hit. My turning radius is already pretty bad and looking in the knuckle cavity, the seals go right up to the edge of the inner knuckle when the wheels are at max turn.

    One approach I've read from a few members is omitting the 3 & 9 O-clock studs in lieu of keeping the original bolts in that location for clearance purposes.

    I see MilitaryMetal did that approach as well when doing the conversion based on a post I found. Considering this Jeep is running smaller tires, I'm keeping the drum brakes, and It'll be seeing minimal trail use anyway, I think having 4 out of 6 studs on each wheel is a good compromise and will still be much stronger than the original bolts.
     
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  10. Dec 10, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    Also..... Does anybody have a counterbore setup for this they'd be willing to lend me?
     
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  11. Dec 10, 2024
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Disclaimer - I have not worked on closed knuckles at all, and my only qualification here is as an armchair Jeeper.

    Fino's thread http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/148922/page-2#post-1683341 shows the minimal amount he had to remove to clear the button heads. He also ground down the button head some, which was my initial thought about this. Does not seem terrible.

    Certainly replacing 4 of the 6 bolts will be stronger than all-bolts. Kinda think you must consider what condition the knuckle is in at 3 and 9 o'clock. Also kinda think I would use something other than bolts in those locations. Studs with red Loctite? Wouldn't you want to prevent any movement of the studs in the knuckle? What's the common failure mode - the bolts loosen and hammer their way free of the threads in the knuckle?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2024
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  12. Dec 10, 2024
    Militarymetal

    Militarymetal Member 2025 Sponsor

    Gainesville, Florida
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    Yes, I only used 4 studs (top and bottom) which maintained the stock steering limits. It’s really an easy modification. A little nerve-wracking at first because you don’t want to ruin the knuckles. But the anxiety was unfounded—no problem.
     
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  13. Dec 10, 2024
    Jw60

    Jw60 New Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    We also used a permanent industrial goo on the bolts once they were started in the knuckle. The sort of stuff that ain't never coming out. so once installed i just ground a slot in the bolt heads to the bottom of the Allen hole at 3 and 9 and massaged the knuckle a bit. Definitely peace of mind since I had two or three damaged holes on each side. The stock spindke bolts don't go very far into the threads of the knuckle so mine had pulled the outer threads out.
    Mine carried a snow plow on some of America's best pot holes.
     
  14. Dec 10, 2024
    Dwins1

    Dwins1 Member

    Port Richey, Florida
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    Quarter Ton is the bomb
     
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  15. Dec 11, 2024
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    This seems like the gist of the problem.

    I'd think you could clean the threads with a bottoming tap and install studs to the bottom of the hole. That would engage more of the threads. This would be a better way around the interference issue with the inner knuckle, if you don't want to grind. I'd still go ahead with the button head screws or Dana 30 studs away from the 3 and 9 o'clock positions - seems straightforward.
     
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  16. Dec 11, 2024
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Hella's knuckles do appear to be the heavier versions and those do have a bit more thread engagement. While the "studs" are definitely a desirable modification, this, like most things Jeep, depends on the use. If one is running Rubicon like trails, absolutely do it. If more moderate wheeling is the normal venue, you probably need not worry about it. While Jame's failure happened on a mild trail reach, it no doubt had a good head-start on pulling the threads before it got there.
     
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  17. Dec 11, 2024
    Jw60

    Jw60 New Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    This is not just a trail issue. All mines damage was due to potholes and NY roads. I don't think it was ever 20' off the pavement before I got it.
     
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  18. Dec 11, 2024
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    On the flip side, I wheeled several Jeeps in the rocks for decades without a single problem with those. Another maintenance issue. If you let them loosen, you WILL have a problem.
     
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  19. Dec 11, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    By "industrial goo" do you mean red loctite? Or did you use something even stronger?

    It seems like the threads are all in good shape. Adding studs at 3 and 9 is an interesting idea! I looked on mcmaster carr but didn't see anything that seemed to fit that application yet. I'll probably, at the minimum, find some new grade 8 bolts and make sure they feed through all the parts and fully engage all the threads in those particular holes. I'll keep an eye out for studs that fit in the meantime though.

    Your whole build inspires me man hahaha. This is my first project vehicle so everything is intimidating at first but I have to keep reminding myself of the many other times I've started on a part, been intimidated, and then gotten through it.

    So this is a great point! As I mentioned before, this vehicle will see very limited trail use. I mostly take it to car shows and putter around town haha. I grew up near the rubicon trail though so the tendency to overthink and over prepare is in my blood. I keep thinking in the back of my mind "the bolts in the knuckles have lasted 60 yrs already..." :lol:

    I can imagine the potholes in NY are probably MUCH harder on a vehicle than an offroad trip :rofl:!!! Hitting one of this suckers at speed can really knock a filling loose!
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024
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  20. Dec 11, 2024
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2025 Sponsor 2024 Sponsor

    Los Angeles, CA
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    Currently waiting on some prussian blue to arrive via amazon so I can get a good pattern on my ring gear teeth. I got the pinion and carrier installed this week but tried to use white lithium grease to check the pattern and it was really hard to decipher. Nobody sells gear marking compound of any type locally.

    In the meantime, I cleaned up the early Warn locking hubs and got all new rubber seals installed in them. Polished off the major oxidization, cleaned out all the old crusty goop, replaced the rubber O rings with the set from TorqueKing, and gave everything a light coat of white lithium grease. Now they turn/lock so easy!

    IMG_0657-2.jpg IMG_0656-2.jpg IMG_0658-2.jpg
     
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