1963 Cj5

I am so jelly of those wheels.

 

Haha, yeah, they’re not to common, that’s for sure, and I do run the same set on my Willy’s wag build.

I made some progress this AM in the chilly spring air.

There is no way the AMC V8 will fit (as everyone already knows), so it is a question of modding the firewall, or modding the front frame cross member.

Either option opens up a can of worms, or a domino effect of mods down the road (again, pretty obvious. While I think my tub is hammered rust, bondo, and bailing wire, I opted to mod the front cross member (let the hate and vitriol begin).

I figured I might end up with a body swap at some future point since the frame is straight and true, but the body is nasty, so it will be easier to mod the frame now, so down the road if I swap on a body I won’t have to mod that body to accommodate the v8 swap.

12” sectioned out in soapstone. Roughly 1.75” deep;”:



Plasma cutter and cut off wheel time.




Time to clean the frame a bit, hose it down with solvent and primer/paint the frame (probably Rust-oleum quart since this is supposed to be a low budget build) after double checking all the welds, and maybe a few gussets for additional support.

When I was hanging upside down welding up the bottom of the x-memeber, I saw the “25” stamp on the front axle… just an FYI.

 

I got it registered in my name today, mowed the yard, then got to work, work, work, work, work, work, work on the AMCv8 swap.
After tugging, pulling, propping and repositioning a number of times, I have kind of in position:


I ran out of daylight and time. But it’s close. I have to bring it forward a smidge, center it fore and aft in the space allotted, and raise it up a wee bit, too.

I did cut about 1.25” off the existing motor mounts rather than cut them all the way out just in case I needed portions of them for the new mounts… if that makes any sense.

Next up repositioning the cherry picker to place the sprawling floor Jack underneath in a balanced way so I can dial it all in, and work out motor mount locations.

Oh, I’m pretty sure it was originally Amber Poly based in the paint reveal under dash when I took out the heater unit. So far, I’ve seen evidence of red, black, blue and yellow paint jobs.

 

You're not leaving yourself much room for a radiator big enough for a V8 there. I'm saying that from experience with Buick 350 in a '71.

 

Watching your progress has been helpful for me. My frame originally had a 4 cylinder in it so I need to cut those mounts out. I've got the factory bolt-in frame mounts that I plan to use with my 304. I have an intermediate grill for this project, which does not line up with the crossmember mount - it sits about an inch forward. I planned on using the intermediate radiator as well, which hits the crossmember so originally my plan was to cut the top off the crossmember about an inch down to allow radiator clearance. After seeing your notch work I think I will just remove the factory crossmember entirely, get everything set where it needs to be, and add back a custom crossmember. Thanks for posting your progress!

 

I am with Fireball, and have been wondering what you were going to do about a radiator ever since the picture of the cut made into the crossmember. With the engine in place I am now wondering whether you have room for the grill.

 

This is some serious truth right there! I appreciate the reminder.

Sticking a v8 in here will be a snowballing effect of mods… mods beget mods beget mods.

I am trying to place the motor in the best possible place to minimize problems later on.

A “few” concerns: radiator placement, exhaust manifold fittings, factory clutch linkage fitting, accel pedal linkage… to name a few.

if it were easy, everyone would be doing it?

 

I think that’s a solid plan. With the use of the intermediate grill, will you use stock early fenders, or the newer, longer style?

I have seen some builders use the bulbous postal grills to gain needed clearance for larger engines.

I do have a few CJ grills, a set of rancid early CJ fenders, and a clapped out hood I can use pieces/parts off of if needed.

 

I’m with him, and you, too!

I’ll be the first one to admit budget building has a higher frustration level than the deep pocket builds, or buying one already built, but I’m all in at this point and problem-solving is key… and if I don’t know, I’m sure the group will offer tips, suggestions, or matches and gasoline to help me burn it to the ground!

Just a side note, I had a line on two Buick v6’s but neither one panned out.

 

I'm still using short fenders. I snagged an intermediate grill because it's already recessed for the radiator, which should free up more room for the motor. I got mine in tonight after lopping off the factory motor mounts and crossmember. It needs some adjusting as the motor is cocked to the driver side more than it should be, but I ran out of daylight.

 

In may case with the Buick V8, I trimmed the bottom flange off the rear of the crossframe and the front pulley is a couple inches behind that. I also cut the cross-frame down in height so the radiator has more room to sit above it (instead of the factory location behind the crossframe):


The fan clears the the trimmed crossframe buy about 3/4":


To maximize core area with the radiator on top the crossframe, I went with a side tanks. It is right up agains the headlight buckets and thre is only a 1" gap to the fan:


That doesn't leave you much room. Your best bet is going to an intermediate radiator as mentioned and replacing the existing crossframe with a new one that's in front of the grill.

Intermediate grill/radiator:

The intermediate radiator will gain you a inch or more over my setup, but it looks like you'll be needing more than that. I'm thinking you need to notch the firewall and move your drivetrain back a couple inches to get it to fit, but I'm not there to see it in person. I would definitely try to mock up your grill/cooling system before you fix the engine location.

 

Great info here! I'm thinking about a V8 in my Commando (which is essentially the same as a CJ from the firewall forward) and I think the intermediate grille looks like the way to go.

 

Your crossmember concerns me.
I feel like that big boxed crossmember contributes a lot to the rigidity of the frame, and you've significantly reduced that.
I think you should either cut it out completely & build a new one or add some significant bracing to what's there.
Caveat-I'm not a fabricator, nor do I play one on TV....maybe someone smarter that me could chime in on this.
Not trying to beat you up, just some constructive criticism.

 

I have the same concerns. That will likely allow way more flex than you want, most especially if fan blades are close to either the frame of radiator. Is the engine set as far towards the firewall as you can get it? You only need about a 1/4" clearance there. That is way more important than moving the transfercase cross member mounts and altering driveshaft lengths. While I appreciate a "budget" build as much as anyone, what you come up with still needs to be functional. As far as engines go, I have always thought the 225 was (is) an equal to the 304 performance wise. The only thing AMC got out of that was use of their own existing engines. The caveat being it made swapping 360's and 401's in a LOT easier.

 

My Jeep already had the 350 in it when I got it. The previous owner had notched the back of the crossframe for fan clearance, used a cut-down stock radiator that didn't have enough core area on top the crossframe, only had a partial shroud, and used too small of a fan. It overheated all the time.

As others have said, that crossframe is a high stress area. Mine was cracking pretty severely where the PO had notched it:


And when I said "I trimmed it down", I really inserted a 2"x2" by 3/16" piece of square tubing and welded it all around to keep the strength in spite of the trimming:


Another useful thing for space is that this style of fan doesn't protrude forward at all but still moves a lot of air. It's the only thing that would fit with my packaging:

 

There are rear offset fans available with conventional blades that will move more air than that style. One can use a combination of various spacers to keep the blades off the belts. I used Flex-a-Lite's 106285 19" straight mechanical fan in the CJ 3B. That fan has only about a half inch forward projection with the rest to the rear. Essentially zero flex. And it moves a huge amount of air.


https://flex-a-lite.com/19-inch-steel-silver-race-fan.html

I completely replaced that cross member in the 3B. The flat fenders obviously have a much different stock cross member but you could do something similar.

 

You can also mount an electric fan in front of the radiator (if there is enough space). You would want a bug shield or screen to insure debris arn't being ingested, but given the lack of space behind the radiator, this would give you some options as far as a primary fan or a secondary system supplementing anything you are running behind the radiator.

 

Yes, that's what I really wanted to use on the '71. However, those hit my crank pulley and I don't have room to the radiator to space it forward. They are overall thicker. It really is tight in the '71. I would have to hack into the headlight buckets and move the radiator forward for that type of fan and I really didn't want to cut into the buckets.

Thankfully, I've had no cooling issues with the current fan, even crawling around our property uphill in low range on a 104 degree day. I, myself, nearly overheated during that test though.

 

Whoa, it was super cool to get online today and see all the input, advice, suggestions and tips. Thank you guys, I appreciate it. Amazing!

I agree on the front x member needing some reinforcement, I feel like I have to dial in the engine placement first, then work out the mods/reinforcements. Please continue to provide tips, suggestions and advice.

What years are considered “intermediate years” for the grill I should be looking for?

I have a spare 70 DJ5a grill (was a four banger). I have a commando grill without the side extensions, and a cj7? grill.


DJ grill not pictured.

Seems like the CJ7 grill would work as an “intermediate year” grill?

I rifled through my bone yard of parts and source two AMC motor to frame mounts as the ones that came with the engine didn’t seem to match size-wise.


I found it kind of interesting to see the difference between the alleged CJ5 version and the FSJ j10/j20 version:


If I can avoid the rain, mocking up engine placement location is the only plan on the agenda for the CJ today.

There isn’t a difference between left and right side frame motor mounts.


Duffer, I just saw your post about the gears, the case is wrapped pretty tightly to protect it from debris, but if I remember correctly, they’re helical. Sorry I did not respond sooner.

 

Well, for SnG’s I mocked up the cj7 grill and I’d have to cut a notch for PS lines as a PO did already on the CJ5 grill. All my “spare” CJ-DJ grills are stock and uncut.
I used a trashed 70’s DJ5A for mock up purposes. I think I’m going to section/cut the stock grill as it is already notched/cut for the PS lines.

Side by side grill comparison:


edit:

The motor is mocked up in the 1st attempt position.

Sadly, more massaging/movement is needed to be able to run exhaust on either side.

The headers that came with the motor won’t fit. The stock exhaust manifolds won’t fit, even when reversed like the driver’s side Rambler 327 Vig. Jeep used in the mid 60’s.

The steering linkage is in the way.