1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Diesel Fuel Additives?

Discussion in 'Quitters' Club' started by Dne007, Aug 31, 2023.

  1. Sep 3, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    I'm rather shocked the fuel and components looks this bad! Even in the gas tank insides look nasty and it was a new tank! I'm thinking to use my pressure washer in the gas tank to see if I can break the "sediment" loose. otherwise I'll buy a new gas tank and start over. Now I'm kind of worried about the injectors:(

    this is the bottom of the fuel filter casing. I used my media blaster to clean this out.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The fuel was still swishing from being siphoned from the tank, but has a funny smell and obviously dark.
    [​IMG]
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  2. Sep 5, 2023
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1,793
    Humm, I have quite a bit of experience with diesel trucks and I can say I have never seen any hard deposits formed like that at all. I have used diesel fuel without any additives stored in sealed 55 gallon drums for almost 10 years without any problem. Ran fine in my Ford and International engines. I usually buy fuel from high volume sellers even if it cost a bit more. Once I did pick up a dose of algae at a little country store fuel tank. It was more like a slime or glue mixed with the fuel. Was a big job getting rid of it. the algae was in everything, had to remove the tank, lines, pumps and filter housings and clean them with soap and hot water. But I did not see hard deposits like you have. From the looks of the fuel you removed it makes me think someone added something they should not have, maybe some fuel made from cooking oil or some additive made for gasoline or possibly even vandalized ?? I did see deposits that looked like that in my jeep carb this week, from probably ethanol gas, the carb fuel bowl had so much hard settlement in it the jets in the bottom were completely clogged, could not even scrape it loose. I went to Advance Auto and bought one of those 1 gallon buckets of carb and parts soak/cleaner. 48 hours soak it looked like a brand new carb. you might get some and remove your fuel tank so you can slosh it around in there for a day or two and it would probably clean out the deposits. Just be sure to remove all rubber or plastic parts first and wear a good respirator. I will say it was likely not bio-diesel that caused it either. Bio Diesel is highly detergent and usually cuts loose any sludge in the tank and clogs filters and ruins some plastic parts and o-rings in older diesels.
    On Edit: I did have an older ford diesel truck that got a dose of bio diesel by mistake. The bio fuel dissolved the factory anti-corrosive coating in the fuel tank clogging the filters, at least that is what the dealer mechanic told me. The bio fuel he had drained from my tank looked red kinda like the fuel from your tank.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2023
    vtxtasy, Fireball and Dne007 like this.
  3. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Thank you for that write up ol fogie, I hope to get the fuel tank cleaned out, if it doesn’t break loose, I’ll have to pull the tank. If that goes well, then shop for decent diesel fuel ⛽️;) and additive;)
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  4. Sep 5, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,767
    How was the fuel filler cap?
    To me it looks like contamination of some sort. And seriously look into using Jet fuel if you have a local airport.
     
    Ol Fogie and Dne007 like this.
  5. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    So jet fuel is diesel? The filler cap is “new”, well now a couple years old. I’ve been painstakingly cleaning the fuel tank, desperately not wanting to remove it. I used hot water with mild soap, at least I can now see the tank innards;) I have the blower side of my shop vac blowing in with an extension to get deep, taking forever!

     
    Ol Fogie and SFaulken like this.
  6. Sep 5, 2023
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Active Member

    Bellevue, WA
    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,178
    Jet fuel isn't diesel, but diesels will run on it. It tends to be "cleaner" than your average pump diesel. Of course, it's also more expensive =]
     
    Dne007 likes this.
  7. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    So maybe jet fuel could be mixed with regular diesel , say 50/50? So do regular planes use gasoline? Pardon my ignorance on this;)
     
  8. Sep 5, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,767
    They use different octane/cetane values mostly due to altitude and temperature. Jet fuel is used in turbines but the diesel ground equipment typically uses it. It's taxed and dyed differently so you can't legally use it on the road.

    A piston airplane will burn 110ll (110octane low lead) but it equals a different automotive octane (130? It's been a few years) the gasoline ground equipment can run 110LL so long as it has no O2 sensor or catalytic converter. There are some very small single man craft that run automotive gasoline as a cost savings but they don't go any higher than you would drive your car (think pikes peak)

    Similar to running bio fuel you would want to check your machines forums but I suspect there are more than a few deere mowing grass on airports running jet fuel.
     
    Ol Fogie and Dne007 like this.
  9. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Thanks jw;)
     
  10. Sep 5, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,789
    There are several/many different grades and categories of Jet Fuel. But it is basically very clean kerosene.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel
     
    Dne007 and Ol Fogie like this.
  11. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    There is not a filling station around which had real diesel, the ones I looked at nearby all had the biodiesel 5%? something like that. So Pete, are you saying I can run Kerosene? I haven't bought anything yet. I'm ready to start the engine, but no fuel:(

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2023
  12. Sep 5, 2023
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1,793
    I am sure you can run straight kerosene, it will burn just fine but it may not have enough lubricity for your injectors and pump. this is why kerosene is usually mixed about 50/50 with regular diesel during very cold weather to prevent gelling of the fuel. Hopefully Pete can add to my thoughts on this.
    There may be some web sites that list fuel brands that have bio diesel and non Bio diesel and where the fuel stations are in your local area.
     
    Dne007 likes this.
  13. Sep 5, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Well, I did learn that there are a couple places which sell Jet fuel, about 30 minutes away, or I do visit my eye doctor which her office is at a small airport. Perhaps the airport there sells it as there are small jets landing there frequently. They have a hangar, they have an airplane and glider. He's a dentist, and participates in air gliding contests. It's rather neat, their home is attached to the hangar.
     
    vtxtasy and Ol Fogie like this.
  14. Sep 5, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,789
    Sorry, I'm really not a diesel guy. Just trying to learn as I go and share what little I find.

    I do have a friend who recently needed an expensive overhaul done to a fairly new tractor, and it was determined to be "algae" in the fuel. And my own heavy equipment shop says I should use algaecide even in the hydraulic oil.

    I've no idea if any variety of jet fuel has suitable additives for our tractors. But an airplane is not a tractor, I suspect.
     
    Dne007 likes this.
  15. Sep 5, 2023
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1,793
    Algae in the fuel is caused by water getting into the tank, either directly or from condensation. fuel and water doesn't mix so the water will settle to the bottom of the tank where the algae then begins to grow in the water. I keep a small refuel tank at my shop for the skidsteer. It has a small petcock drain on the very bottom of the tank where I will every so often open it to see if there is any water in there. once in a while I will get a few drops of water but not often at all. By removing this water I can almost guarantee I will not have an algae problem develop. Just my opinion buying jet fuel is probably overkill caution, besides it might not be very compatible with a tractor engine in the long run, might cause lubricity problems with the jet fuel being so highly refined. Diesel purchased at a high volume station or truck stop is usually reasonably fresh and well filtered at the pump. The likely hood of picking up contamination is reliably small, again just my opinion the extra cost of the jet fuel is probably not worth it when you consider the odds. Thousands of trucks on the road fuel up this way every day with few problems. If you are concerned about it I would install a secondary 2 micron drainable fuel filter on the tractor and change both the filters at each oil change. For 40 years I have owned diesel tractors, heavy diesel trucks, and pickups and always installed an aftermarket secondary filter setup on them. In 40 + years I have only picked up an algae problem one time and a bio diesel related problem one time. I did get something in the fuel in my dodge cummins that wrecked the injectors from a little country store when I was very low and had to have it so to get back to a better source. Not sure what it was, I never did see anything to contaminate it whatever it was went right thru my 2 micron fuel filter and corroded the pins in the injectors. I do not know if you have them in TX but the kroger food stores fuel stations have non Bio diesel here in Ga. Just do your research and make your own decisions, this ramble is just my own opinion. Jim
     
    Dne007, vtxtasy, Danefraz and 2 others like this.
  16. Sep 28, 2023
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Thank you (Ol Fogie) Jim for that writeup;)
    I finally said heck with it and bought diesel from my local Chevron station. I must say it is a pretty green color and plus I added an additive pictured below. Finally got the beast running and sounds really good. I was worried the injectors were going to be stopped up, but no worries there. So, I'm starting with a clean tank, new fuel filter, rebuilt injector pump, etc.

    I did ask my neighbor what he does as he has all kinds of tractors~ he says he just runs local diesel, only encountered a problem with one of his tractors, but ran Sea Foam through it and all was well. I'll get some of that, but maybe once a year I'll drain the tank and refresh it from time to time;)
    thanks everyone!! ;)
    dne'

    upload_2023-9-28_16-40-7.jpeg
     
    vtxtasy, Ol Fogie, SFaulken and 2 others like this.
  17. Sep 29, 2023
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1,793
    No, No sea foam in your diesel (Gasoline engines ok )or anything that might have alcohol in it. The alcohol will mix with any water and digest it in a gasoline engine but in a diesel engine you want to run a water separator filter and just drain it once in a while so to get rid of the water before it gets to your injector pump or injectors. Alcohol (sea foam may be alcohol based) in your diesel fuel will not lubricate your injector pump properly and ruin it.
    : on edit the LX4 is probably a good idea though. I use a little 2 cycle oil in my fuel to lube the pump and injectors. Many post about it on the diesel forums, seems to be very popular solution for the lack of lubricity in the diesel fuel after they removed the Sulphur. But the LX4 should suffice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2023
  18. Sep 29, 2023
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1,793
    You can drain your tank occasionally if you feel better about it, but I don't bother with it. Any water in there will get mixed into your diesel fuel when you drive around and it will and get nabbed by the fuel pump and brought up to your primary fuel/water separator filter. I just check/drain the water separator filters on both the primary and secondary filters at every oil change, If I get a drop or two of water when checking it I will check it every 50 miles or so until it appears all the water is gone from the system just to make sure all the water has been captured. If I found water in excess in my separator filter several times then I might drain the tank looking for large amounts of water.
    If you want to get technical about it you can catch your drained fluid into a clear test tube device like used to check the gasoline for water in aircraft fuel tanks. look for the division of water and fuel in your test tube. A word of caution though. The new diesel is almost clear to the eye in a test tube and it can be hard to see the division point with any water in it but it will be there. I learned about this during a pre flight check list. When draining a small amount of gasoline from the aircraft fuel tank for the water check, the filled tube appeared to be perfectly clear with no division point indicating no water present. When I dumped it I noticed the contents did not act like gasoline it beaded up like water on an oily surface. On further examination what I found was the test tube was completely filled with water, no gasoline in it, thus no division point. :shock::shock::shock:. If I had not looked at it when I dumped it out I would never have caught it which would have surly led to in flight engine failure. I learned to never allow airport crews to attempt refueling if was raining out.
     
  19. Sep 29, 2023
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    973
    I agree with all that has been said above and will add that for as little as you run that it probably would not be a bad idea to drain the tank once a year and put fresh fuel in it.Like Fogie I have had diesels for many years, for new diesels I add nothing, but buy my diesel fuel at high volume dealers...old diesels like your Ford I add ATF for lubricity....probably shouldn't say that in this day and age, those old pumps just can't tolerate the new fuel....best thing you could do for it is to run it. :study:
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
New Posts