Removing S Lines To Brakes

Maybe I am going crazy but I am in the process of replacing some heavily rusted/corroded brake lines with stainless lines from Inline Tube (highly recommend their pre-bent kit, tech support has been A++ as well). I am now to the point of trying to remove the old hard lines that are shaped like an “S” that are attached to the back of the drums. Can anyone enlighten me on an easy way to remove these lines? I can’t get a wrench in there to get them loose at all! Do I have to remove the valve from inside the brake drum to get to them? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is a 1969 CJ5 with stock drum brakes and stock dual master cylinder.

 

"Do I have to remove the valve from inside the brake drum to get to them?"

What "Valve" are you talking about? The "S" line is not attached to the back of the drums either. It is attached to the "Wheel Cylinder", not a "Valve". I have had no problem getting a wrench on the fittings, but you do need the correct wrench specific for this.

I have been working on these things for many years. You are going to have to replace a lot more than just the rusted brake lines.

Sounds like your first venture into working on brakes? DO YOU HAVE a SERVICE MANUAL?

 

Oh trust me don’t I know it. I have a build thread on here for my 69 which talks about everything I have done and still plan to do to get it up and running. It is going to be an ongoing labor of love with something to always do. That is one of the reasons I bought it, I love working on it.

As for the brake lines, I am talking about the small “S” line that is rigid that runs from the wheel cylinder to the flexible hose.

I have a set of flare nut wrenches but the angle at which the “S” line comes off of the wheel cylinder is too tight against the backing plate of the drums to get a wrench on to loosen or tighten.

I do also have a FSM as well as a couple of others for reference. This isn’t my first time working on brakes but is my first time working on Jeep brakes. I have a fair amount of experience working on both drum and disc breaks.

 

I was able to get a flare wrench in there no problem, although my wrenches have a sight offset. Might be more difficult if they’re completely flat. Just to be clear, you’re talking about the S lines in the top middle/ left corner of this image?

 

Yes I am, mine don’t come straight out, instead they run at an angle that is pointed towards the master cylinder (both of the fronts). My wrenches have an offset as well. I can’t even get a wrench on it. I’ll take a photo to show.

 

Here is a photo, don’t mind the grease, it is on the list to clean the knuckles and replace the seals.

 

Relacing old rusted untrustworthy 'S' tubes? Cut them at the fittings and use a socket, after copious quantities of penetrating oil have been used.

 

I remember putting these lines on the “Free Jeep”. #1 worst part of a CJ.

Best solution = Dana 30 swap

 

The wheel cylinder may need to be sacrificed and replaced. They are cheap. Cut the brake tube and replace the whole mess.

I have found that installing the brake S-tube is a whole lot easier if the brake line is tightened before finally bolting up the cylinder to the backing plate.

Also, check that you have the right parts - I believe on the correct wheel cylinder the fitting may be need to be straight (90º), not angled, from the rear of the cylinder.

 

• With the frame mount for the rubber line, and the absence of the guard on top of the knuckle that Jeep was designed to use a different wheel cylinder with the rubber line fitting directly into the wheel cylinder.

The "S" lines were used on earlier CJs and M38A1 Jeeps which had the front brake line clamped to the top of the axle instead of routing it across the front crossmember.

Someone has added that tab on top of the King pin to be able to use older style wheel cylinder with the "S" lines.

Just cut the line toss those wheel cylinders and get the correct ones with fittings for the rubber line.

 

This is not true. Both my '69 and '71 dauntless Jeeps with original 10 brakes have S-lines that connect to hoses that go to the frame. See below:

 

Front disks would fix it.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say "This is not true", but I had never seen the setup yours has, so I concede the OP's setup was not something someone cobbled up as I thought it was, it just looks that way.

The 67 in my avatar picture has frame mounted hoses that go directly into the wheel cylinders, as did the other 67 I parted out. Both of these were four cylinder CJ5 standards, but I don't know if that accounts for the difference between them and what you have on your Dauntless Jeeps.

The "S" or "Z" lines are a pain to fool with, and easily eliminated.

 

Interesting. I don't know why the discrepancy. I'm pretty sure both of mine are original and the 1971 parts catalog lists them for both F-134 and V6 Jeeps.

So rather than saying:

It's probably more accurate to say "Some Jeeps came without the S-bend tubes and you might be ahead to get rid of them".

 

I can not vouch for my Jeep as being “original” nearly as confidently as fireball, but I believe my frame and running gear is factory v6 of the same vintage with 4 wheel 10” wagners. Mine has the same steel z lines to kingpin

 

What is the condition of your current front brakes?

If you need to replace everything, you are in the same $$ neighborhood as a Brennans garage disc conversion.

 

I have only had two complete CJ5s, both were the 67s I mentioned, so my experience with different variations is limited, but expanding.

I can say for certain that every military Jeep I have experience with, and the several CJ2As I have owned all had front brake lines clamped to the axle, with short rubber lines running to guards on top of the king pins, with the "S" lines going to the wheel cylinders. I have had more CJ2As than military Jeeps, but I have owned a M38, and have used two sets of military surplus M38A1 axles, all with the setup using the "S" lines like found on all of the CJ2As I have owned.

When I am fixing up an old Jeep for my own use I always upgrade the brakes to 11" Bendix brakes, and along with that conversion I order front wheel cylinders for a 1973 CJ5 which have angled ports for the longer fittings of the long rubber hose that mounts to the frame and eliminates the need for the "S" lines. On the older Jeeps I have to weld a bracket to the frame, and was pleasantly surprised to find that already in place on my 67 CJ5. Those wheel cylinders are listed for only 1972-1973 CJs, so perhaps a change occurred between 69 and 72.

 

My 1971 (pretty sure original axles) has S lines. I bent new ones myself and made brackets using one of the king pin bolts like mentioned above. I did every soft and hard line, all 4 wheel cylinders and the master cylinder. Although nothing was leaking about everything was clogged up. 52 years is a long time, don't anyone ever flushed the brake fluid.

 

I really appreciate all of the insight and suggestions. I guess the only real answer I have seen so far is to cut the old lines to get them off and then replace the wheel cylinders with straight ones in the front so that I can get the new lines on.

I would prefer to keep the S line. I have purchased stainless steel flexible hoses already to replace the rubber ones.

I am not in a position right now to do a full disk conversion but it may come in due time. As I mentioned before, there is always going to be something to do on the Jeep, just need the time and money to do it is all.