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Saggy Steering Box Measurements

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Jul 14, 2023.

  1. Jul 14, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Trying to get a length measurement comparison between the manual vs power saggy box. Basically I would want to mount the box mounting plate such that both boxes would fit....mostly it's a concern of getting it forward enough that access to possible PS lines would be doable if at some future point I wanted to swap to a power set-up. Thanks
     
    FinoCJ, Jul 14, 2023
    #1
  2. Jul 14, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    You can mount a ps box and not use a pump, just loop the line to prevent contamination. Works fine as a manual. Do it now...
     
    Rich M., Jul 14, 2023
    #2
  3. Jul 14, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    But the ratio is different....manual comes with a lot more built in mechanical advantage.
     
    FinoCJ, Jul 14, 2023
    #3
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  4. Jul 14, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    If you don't already have the box I agree to go ahead with the power box looped back. The pitman arm plays a huge role in placement and feel so the combination of arm and box makes physical placement a little different.
     
    Jw60, Jul 14, 2023
    #4
  5. Jul 14, 2023
    boopiejones

    boopiejones I can’t drive 55

    California east bay
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    My power box (Saginaw 800 if I recall correctly) measures approx 11” long

    rear of the box to the center of the sector shaft is approximately 7”

    rear of the box to the rearmost lower mounting bolt is approximately 4”
     
    boopiejones, Jul 14, 2023
    #5
    FinoCJ likes this.
  6. Jul 14, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Manual boxes are also stupid expensive right now if buying rebuilt.
     
    Jw60, Jul 14, 2023
    #6
  7. Jul 14, 2023
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Spokane Valley, WA
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    Any time I’ve lost the ‘power’ in my power steering, it was a terrifyingly extreme force of labor. I would not recommend.

    I’d personally have, or at least have access to both boxes before I start. Build it specifically for the power box, then run the manual.

    Keep in mind that the manual box will be a few inches shorter, so the lower section of the steering shaft will need to be swapped (or telescopic).
     
    ITLKSEZ, Jul 14, 2023
    #7
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  8. Jul 14, 2023
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Admittedly I've only used that method in limp/ busted hose mode. Gtk
     
    Rich M., Jul 14, 2023
    #8
  9. Jul 14, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    The CJ OEM manual box is something like 24 or 26:1 with 6-6.5 turns lock to lock. CJ power boxes are 14 or 16:1 ratio in that 3.5-4 turns lock to lock range.
     
    FinoCJ, Jul 14, 2023
    #9
  10. Jul 14, 2023
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    Nov 12, 2007
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    If you are going through all the work mightvas well go power. If you have a dauntless i would recommend grtting the gm type 2 pump braket from brennans garage. You seem kind of hesitant to go power, james. Are you worried about drivability or are you just used to manual?
     
    supertrooper, Jul 14, 2023
    #10
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  11. Jul 14, 2023
    Rozcoking23

    Rozcoking23 RUN & GET BIT! 2024 Sponsor

    Stockton, CA
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    James, I looked at your projects you have done to the CJ and wagon, this conversion is easier then some of those, and you will be wondering why you didn’t do it sooner.
     
    Rozcoking23, Jul 14, 2023
    #11
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  12. Jul 16, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    I already sent these pics to Fino but I'll post them here in case anyone else is interested. Saginaw manual steering gear, in this case the OEM unit from my Commando, as compared to a PS gearbox.

    20230715_084425.jpg

    20230715_084233.jpg

    As you can see, the big difference is about an inch and a half of length on the front. This could be a concern if it gets into your bumper.
     
    colojeepguy, Jul 16, 2023
    #12
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  13. Jul 16, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I would highly recommend a telescopic shaft, both from a safety standpoint and an ease of installation standpoint. MUCH easier to install the steering gear if you can just bolt it on and then connect the steering shaft.
     
    colojeepguy, Jul 16, 2023
    #13
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  14. Jul 16, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Cool school 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I'm going to end up cutting out some of my 3/4"DD shaft and adding in some 1"DD. I need to move my box forward an inch and my solid 3/4DD shaft will be too short. I think I'm using 2ft of 3/4DD. The 3/4 universals are much more compact than the 1" versions so I'll use a small 3/4" stub to end the 1"DD length at the universal. Then I'll cut a section of 3/4" out for a few inches of inward and outward travel.
     
    Jw60, Jul 16, 2023
    #14
  15. Jul 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I just don't like the feel of the power set-ups I've used. I swapped a power set-up into my CJ7 when I blew up the manual box, and it was okay, but not great. The 58 has a power saggy swap already done that I fixed up a bit with removing the rag joint for a ujoint and redoing the column and shaft (telescoping) etc, and honestly, I think it drives like mush - I'd rather have a manual set-up in it. I much prefer the feel of my worn out ross box over any of those. As has been discussed in my PS threads previously, a lot of it may be able to get worked out with the right valving and the 58 could use some caster shims to help it find center more easily, but I just don't know what those changes specifically need to be. When chatting with redhead and lee etc, it seems like its hard to get that kind of info...like what valve is in a particular set-up and how much would they suggest changing the valve weight to get the feel I want - basically, they don't suggest any changes. They list 3 different model numbers for CJs (72-76, 77-79, and 80-86) and they can't seem to tell me the difference between them....Same with a YJ box as Kyle seems to like.

    If I end up going power, that would be my first plan....but I do run forward dump manifold and mechanical fuel pump, so not sure how tight the fitting will be in there?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2023
    FinoCJ, Jul 19, 2023
    #15
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  16. Jul 19, 2023
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    You should have plent of clearance for the fuel pump and front dump manifold with the type 2 pump. You can check it out and test drive my jeep to see how you like it in Colorado next month.
     
    supertrooper, Jul 19, 2023
    #16
    FinoCJ likes this.
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