1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Oil Pressure And Pump.

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Andrew Theros, Feb 17, 2022.

  1. Feb 17, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    Hi All, more questions.
    Got the distributor square, fired up nicely but, no oil pressure.
    Pulled the pump back apart and it was largely still full of vaseline.
    I noticed that it would spin free in the housing, not contacting the distributor shaft.
    Pulled it out, put it into the old timing cover and measured ~105mm.
    Put it back in the new TC ( on the Jeep) and measuring ~108mm.
    I thought I bench fit this before installed it but I guess not. When I took it all apart, there was no gasket or seal in the old TC so I bought one. A rubber o-ring is what I got.
    With only ~3mm difference, is the distributor grommet my problem?
    I can’t imagine 1-2mm of bearing surface on the pump shaft is correct. Any suggestions, ideas or experience?
    I’m probably done out there today, family time is due, but nothing is tight so I can still measure.

    Measurements above are from the distributor mounting surface to the bottom of the saddle on the oil pump shaft.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2022
  2. Feb 17, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    4,501
    You can prime the oil pump by drill after you have packed it with vasoline....it will read oil pressure on a mechanical gauge. I know it sounds trivial, I'd also check to make sure the base of the distributor shaft is sitting all the way down into the oil pump slot. The dist and cam gear can mesh and the engine run, but it's not seated or dropped all the way down into to pump.
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  3. Feb 17, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    674
    Definitely prime with a drill. It will noticeably bog down a cordless drill when it starts pumping. And it doesn't take much to not engage the pump, if it's up even a little it's not spinning the pump. After you prime it, and put the distributor back in, I would crank it with the coil wire off, and watch for pressure, before firing it.
     
    Andrew Theros and fhoehle like this.
  4. Feb 17, 2022
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Member

    Eagle Point oregon
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    758
    You're saying you can spin the oil pump gears with the dist installed? Sounds like there is an issue with the pump engaging the dist drive gear.

    There should be an o ring on the dist housing fitting in a grove just below the mating surfaces.

    Install the oil pump and measure from the top of the drive gear to the flat surface of where the dist seats. Compare that distance with the one from the same surface on the dist to the slot inside the drive gear.

    If all else fails, take the new cover off and install the pump and dist. Inspect the fit to see what is wrong.
     
    Ol Fogie and Andrew Theros like this.
  5. Feb 18, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    827
    No you cannot spin the pump with the distributor installed, but you can do as James suggests and spin the pump with a drive rod chucked into a drill before installing the distributor to prime it.

    The suggestion made by "Timsresort" to crank it with the coil wire off after the distributor is installed is additional insurance.

    I have done this with a great many Chevy engines, and the Buick V6 design will allow it as well.
     
    Ol Fogie, Andrew Theros and fhoehle like this.
  6. Feb 18, 2022
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Member

    Eagle Point oregon
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    758
    That is how I read this:
    I may have misinterpreted his statement.
    If so, then as stated, try priming the pump. If that doesn't work, check the bypass valve to insure it isn't stuck open.
     
    Ol Fogie and Andrew Theros like this.
  7. Feb 18, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash The pride of Cucamonga 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    2,813
    I’m not sure how much work you’ve done on this engine lately but A couple of years ago had an oil pressure problem after having the timing cover off. The timing cover gasket completely covered one of the oil passages between the pump and the block. The pressure caused mine to leak outside the engine but could have easily leaked inside the timing cover and that wouldn’t have been so obvious.

    The timing cover gasket I just put on a couple weeks ago had the same issue. Luckily I knew to check and modified the gasket.
     
    Andrew Theros and Rich M. like this.
  8. Feb 18, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    Thanks All!
    I think for today I will remove the o-ring , clamp the dist down and see if the shaft engages. If that is successful, maybe cut a paper gasket to replace the o-ring?
    If all goes well, I’ll definitely prime with a drill beforehand as I have already ran for ~10 seconds without oil.
    No oil pump gasket till next week, so I’ve got some time to mess around.
    Thanks again, I’ll post up what happens!
     
  9. Feb 18, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    I noticed something similar when I disassembled mine. There was one passage blocked with sealant. I remember thinking maybe that’s why my fuel pump eccentric was so worn, maybe that blocked passage was starving the timing area for oil. When I re installed though, I noticed there was no corresponding passage in the block. 65CE042C-7B06-4E5B-823B-309ADB4BFC39.jpeg
     
  10. Feb 18, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash The pride of Cucamonga 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    2,813
    I think that’s the one. Obviously lots of variations on these V6s. The problem I had was on a ‘66 Dauntless. My ‘80 231 has the same passages - blocked by the gasket.
     
  11. Feb 18, 2022
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,602
    That o ring is not stopping the distributor from setting down fully. You do not have the oil pump and distributor aligned. The distributor will engage the cam far enough for it to run without meshing with the oil pump. It just takes a little time to sort out, you have to know how much the distributor will turn when engaging the cam gear so the oil pump will be aligned where the gear ends up, not where you start.
     
    Ol Fogie and Andrew Theros like this.
  12. Feb 18, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    So here’s today’s report. With the distributor tightened down with the o-ring and no oil pump shaft, I can insert the oil pump shaft and just feel the distributor (still doesn’t fully engage).
    Same scenario without the o-ring, oil pump shaft engages the distributor.
    The o-ring measures a full 1/8” thickness.
    I think it’s going to get a thin smear of #2 on the TC mating surface in place of the o-ring.
     
  13. Feb 19, 2022
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Member

    Eagle Point oregon
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    758
    The edge of the o ring should just barely stick out above the dist housing.

    Might try installing the dist with the oil pump removed. Lube the o ring and twist as you push down. It should seat fully against the top flange. If you can get the dist to seat, then get your timing (rotor) as close to possible then install the pump. $_3.JPG
    If it looks too big, or simply won't go down into the hole, then my recourse would be to try a smaller o ring.

    I wouldn't remove the o ring, you will need it to insure an oil seal. Trying to seal it at the top won't work since the sealant will be compromised when you rotate the housing to adjust the timing.
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  14. Feb 19, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    I would like to thank jeepdaddy2000, Rich M and Old pappy before I humbly accept the award for Dumbass Of The Day!

    Seriously, a picture is worth a thousand words. The old seal was so hard and flattened, I thought it was some kind of spacer or washer. I was trying to seat it all the way up against the flange.

    Lesson learned. Thank you all for your patience and help!
     
  15. Feb 19, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2021
    Messages:
    827
    Glad someone is taking over the title, and collecting the award. I was accumulating too many of the awards and had no more room on the wall for them.

    Also glad you resolved your issue, and hope running it the little you did without an oil pump did not cause damage.
     
    vtxtasy, Glenn, fhoehle and 1 other person like this.
  16. Mar 1, 2022
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    191
    So, I took my award out to the driveway yesterday afternoon. After a small correction, fired right up!
    Oil pressure good at around 25 at idle.
    Heard an annoying little knock from the front end. While I was wandering around with my listening stick/fuel gauge, I heard it get very noisy…yep, no oil pressure :censored:
    I’ll pull the distributor again and inspect the pump drive, run the pump with a drill again.
    What else should I be looking for?
    Blocked pickup down in the sump?
    I am very curious now.
     
  17. Mar 1, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    3,546
    Its unlikely, but I have had an oil pump where the pressed on gear came free of the driven shaft. At idle, it would have some oil pressure, but when rev’ed a bit, pressure dropped off.
    When disassembled, I could twist the gear on the shaft.
    -Donny
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  18. Mar 1, 2022
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,602
    Relief valve sticking open?
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  19. Mar 1, 2022
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,079
    Its been a while since I had one of these out, but is it possible to put the dist. gear upside down on the dist. shaft? Seems like I did that one time.
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  20. Mar 1, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    674
    What pressure do you get with a drill? If it's low, look at the relief spring. If it's good with a drill, (I would screw a mechanical gauge right into the block so you can see it while spinning the drill), unless there's something not engaging, in which case there would be zero, it should be fine.
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
New Posts