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I Cannot Figure Out The Horn Setup At The Column On My 73

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by dsrt4, Jan 26, 2022.

  1. Jan 26, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    This is driving me bonkers. The horn has never worked at least on the wheel in my 73 cj since I bought it from a cousin in 1993. He bought it new and said the horn quit working after a few years and he never messed with it. I wired in a button to the dash to have a horn when i was a kid but thats corny and I wanna fix it..

    I bought a new Horn contact for under the steering column as well as a new horn button kit with the contact and wiring under the butt The picture from Barneys ebay page showing the column shows a part I do not have in my column or its hidden somewhere. 3.400-27 that the actual horn button wiring is connected to.

    When I look down the shaft the wiring goes down it is a blind hole and only go's so far down into the steering shaft. I can see a hole drilled on the side of that drilled bore but donno how that ties into the whole deal.

    How does thing work? Does the whole column have to be dissembled to fix this thing? Maybe that brass bushing 3.400-27 has slid down the tube or something? How the heck does the column come apart?

    Anyone messed with this thing?
     
  2. Jan 26, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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  3. Jan 26, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    The intermediates had a terrible design with that contact brush low on the column. They seldom made contact, usually due to corrosion.
    -Donny
     
  4. Jan 27, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I took mine apart to fix it, years ago. I pulled the shaft out complete with the steering wheel. As I recall, the wire from the -27 part came loose and I soldered it back.

    You understand how this works? The horn is at 12V potential (high) all the time. The horn button grounds the wire to the column to complete the circuit. The -27 part is insulated from the column, and provides a path for the horn wire from the contact to the horn button. You should see that -27 part in the window that the Barney's part covers.

    This picture is a little different from what I have in my '74-80 parts book reprint. There, the -22 part the diagram above points to is not available separately, but instead is part of a complete replacement turn signal switch.
     
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  5. Jan 28, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    I may just put the horn button back on the dash. At least that worked. Only a short piece of wire came out of the column through the blind hole and it was all ragged on the end. Plus It looks like I am missing parts in the column like the brass bushing or whatever it is and messing with it is messing up my whole momentum on the project knowwhatimean? A million other things are being put on the back burner because of it.
     
  6. Jan 29, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    There should be a sleeve on the shaft, part 3.400-27 here. If it's missing you could likely make it. If it came loose from the wire extending down beside the shaft, it could be anywhere on the shaft.

    It's not hard to lift the steering wheel and shaft out of the steering column tube. What's hard is getting the steering wheel loose from the shaft - but you don't need to.

    The bottom of the steering shaft is connected to a u-joint and sits in a bushing. This bushing is often worn out and broken. McRuff made a replacement bushing for my Jeep - he may still have some, or they are probably available from Barney's. Free the bottom of the shaft from the u-joint and the shaft and steering wheel come out of the column together.
     
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  7. Jan 29, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    I will try that. Thanks for the help and guidance. I have a new bushing in it at the bottom. I cannot remember if I made it or bought it years ago.
     
  8. Jan 29, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    NP!
     
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  9. Feb 26, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    Caught the Covid crap and was down for a bit. I am back at it. Barneys sent out the new column horn bushing. Looks to be the same at the cj2a flat fender style bushing.

    It this bushing supposed to be a very loose fit on the steering shaft in the column or should it be a press fit? Anyone know?
     
  10. Feb 26, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    The bushing I got from McRuff slides in but has no slop. The shaft probably has a few thousandths clearance. I put it together without really noticing whether it was tight or loose - tight enough, not too loose.
     
  11. Feb 26, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    Is it supposed to stay in place and turn with the steering shaft? If so I am wondering how the horn button wire doesn't get bound all up in the column?
     
  12. Feb 27, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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  13. Feb 27, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    Im probably overthinking it. Seems like it could just be hammered down into place and not move at all since everything rotates with it. Seems also the only way the wire will bind up is if I leave it too long in the tube.


    I just dont want to have to take it all apart again from screwing up the install.
     
  14. Feb 27, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    3.400-27 should not move on the column shaft without some persuasion. I recall it has a plastic inner with a metal (brass?) outer shell. It was tight enough that I could move it, but it was like the plastic was a press-fit on the shaft. Not loose. You should move it to the point where your contact rides in the middle when the shaft and steering wheel are fully seated in the column.

    I kinda suspect you still don't appreciate how this works. Nothing moves other than the shaft and steering wheel rotating. The part you got from Barneys's is a brush, like the brush on the commutator of an electric motor. All it does is make contact with the sleeve and provide continuity for the horn power, even when the shaft rotates.

    If -27 does not now line up with the window for the brush, you're going to have to measure where you expect it will be, move it to there, and put the shaft and wheel fully into the column. Then look through the window and see if -27 will line up with the brush you got from Barney's. Rinse and repeat as needed.

    When I wrote "not loose and not tight," I was referring to the bushing at the bottom of the column tube, which McRuff supplied to me.
     
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  15. Mar 16, 2022
    Dave M

    Dave M New Member

    Keuka Park NY USA
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    Maybe this will help. There is a plastic retainer sleeve that the brass sleeve fits over. The horn button wire runs down the shaft and out the hole on the side. I currently have mine apart so let me know if you'd want more pics. Dave '74 cj5
     

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  16. Mar 16, 2022
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

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    I got it together last week. Timgr straightened me out. But imma make sure I "borrow" your pic and save it in my intermediate archive pics! Thanks!
     
  17. May 19, 2022
    Billy Weidlein

    Billy Weidlein New Member

    Iowa
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    Jumping on this thread as I have the same issue. I have a new shaft, horn collar, horn brush wire, and my horn button has the brass piece and spring clip. Basically I match the diagram above except missing 3.400-10 and 10.280-2 washer. They just weren’t there. My concern is they put on a new wheel, aftermarket, don’t know anything about where they got it, what brand, if it’s right, etc. I assume 3.400-10 is what the disk in the horn button makes contact with to ground. Stupid question—do I just need to order 3.400-10 piece? Does it look like it will fit in my wheel?

     
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