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My '69 Cj5 With The Abrupt Clutch

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by David Allen, Oct 5, 2021.

  1. Oct 5, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Abrupt clutch engagement may finally be gone. '69 CJ5, Dauntless V6, T98 4 speed. After over 3 months in the shop I drove the Jeep home today. All seems good. I have had this clutch issue since I tried to fix a noisy TO bearing, over a year ago. The TO bearing retainer had broken. I replaced it and the complete clutch. It broke again. After pulling the trans/transfer case 3 times on my back in the driveway, I took it to a local shop. 3 more tries and it looks like its finally fixed. The '67-'69 CJ5's have the bearing retainer bolted onto the bellhousing. The input shaft passes through it. They are not a common part having only been used those 3 years. I found the dimentions on the same part in a Muncie T10. Only thing is one of 4 mounting holes is a half hole off. But, while the bearing retainer tube was the same as the original, it seems like it was actually a bit short. I believe what was happening is the TO bearing was reaching over the end of the tube, getting a bit off, then breaking the tube. I finally got the retainer that fits a T18. It is about 3/8" longer than the old part. The base flange is a touch bigger around and required grinding to fit the hole in the bellhousing. The holes don't line up at all so I rotated the flange to where the holes fit over solid metal and redrilled them. Bottom line is the clutch works as before the noise, and it shifts better than before. Maybe a solution for the unavailable TO bearing retainer?
     
    Fireball likes this.
  2. Oct 7, 2021
    KJSR

    KJSR New Member

    Utah
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2021
    Messages:
    12
    Any chance pictures were taken?
     
  3. Oct 7, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    My pictures are on my phone. Between my phone and my PC I can't get them to where I want them to go. I have tried a couple of times. The last TO bearing support was for a T18, and so far it worked. '67,'68, and '69 with the Dauntless V6 were the only Cj's to use this type retainer. They are scarce as hens teeth. I found this out from a Jeep parts dealer in the north east (don't remember who), possibly a dismantler. I tried the part made for a T10 Muncie (because the Dauntless had been built by GM, just not this one). It fit except one mount hole was a half hole off, and the flange diameter was the same as the original part. It is my understanding that most bearing retainers bolt onto the transmission, and the mainshaft on this does. But the TO bearing retainer on this bolts into the bellhousing, and the mainshaft passes through this. The tube on the original part was the same length as the T10 part. The tube on the T18 part is about 3/8" longer. I broke 3 or 4 of these before the shop and myself figured what was happening. I still don't know for sure but I think the old tube was allowing the TO bearing to go slightly over the edge and making it break the tube off. I had a tube made, but the guy welded the new tube to the cast flange. the heat from welding let the cast iron flange crystalize and break across the base. The old part would break within the first few pedal depressions this one hasn't. Maybe I finally got the right combination of parts.
     
  4. Oct 7, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    When the clutch and the above parts were assembled and did, sort of work, the clutch had a normal pedal, but very abrupt engagement. The only other difference between then and now was I had the Flywheel surfaced. I wanted it surfaced the first time but the machine shops grinder was broke. Huge difference in engagement now.
     
  5. Oct 9, 2021
    AC Bill

    AC Bill New Member

    Vancouver Island BC
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2021
    Messages:
    13
    Quote-" '67,'68, and '69 with the Dauntless V6 were the only Cj's to use this type retainer. They are scarce as hens teeth."

    Yikes I don't like to hear stuff like that..I just got a barn find 69 CJ5, but I haven't gotten into it at all yet. Was that retainer tube a part that failed quite often on those years?
    Hopefully you found the solution, should I too encounter an issue.
     
  6. Oct 10, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    My '69 CJ5 has had 3 owners including me. The second owner only maintained it and drove it for about a year, when he got a newer Jeep (bigger, more room, but not as stout). I have had it over 2 years, but because of a cosmetic restoration, then the clutch troubles, I have only driven it a couple hundred miles, if that. 30 miles when I drove it home, 60 miles when I took it for new tires. It never left my hometown in other driving. I noticed what I thought was a throwout bearing noise so I pulled it down the first time. I knew the transmission had been swapped by the original owner (a lady's daily driver for over 40 years) when I pulled it down, I found the swap had been to a T98 (cast into the side of the case along with the other numbers supporting the T98 diaganosis). In the search for the correct bearing retainer I talked to the owner of an old Jeep wrecking yard (can't remember the name) who knows quite a bit about these Jeeps. That was when I found out about the scarcity of the original part. Getting the parts for it was a case of mix and match, with some mistakes made. I have hoped to help another owner with not making so many mistakes. Anyway, so far so good.
     
  7. Oct 10, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    AC Bill, is your CJ a V6 or the 4? I don't know if the 4 cyl. had the same setup.
     
    AKCJ likes this.
  8. Oct 16, 2021
    AC Bill

    AC Bill New Member

    Vancouver Island BC
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2021
    Messages:
    13
    Mine has the V6 engine.
     
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