Dana 25 Clunk When Turning

Hey All!

My 56' Willys is making a pretty loud bang/clunk from the front end like something is binding and releasing when I make a hard left turn at very low speeds.
The transfer case is in 2-Hi, front axles are disconnected (old Warn disconnects). I took the Warn disconnects off and confirmed that they do disconnect when switched.
I just replaced all drag link and tie rod, along with all the joints and did a Tie Rod Flip with GM 1-ton components.

Also, when I turn the wheel all the way to the right there is a "pop" just before the knuckle hits the limit screw. There is a quieter pop when I bring the wheel back to center. Could the Cardan joints be jamming up? The factory steering stop screws are still welded in place. It sounds like it's on the right (passenger) side, but when I put my head down there and have my wife turn the wheel it sounds/feels like it's coming from everywhere!
The axle is the factory Dana 25 with 5.38:1 gears, and an open diff. The axle was recently rebuilt, but I have very little faith in the quality of the rebuild, nor do I know exactly what was replaced.

Any thoughts?

 

Probably the axle u-joint but you can get some of that also if the snap ring isn't holding the stub shaft close to the spindle bushing. It's not too big a job to replace the u-joint.

 

Check clearance of your tie rod and ends against your springs.

 

I would be looking at the kingpin bearings just because it is new to you.

 

D25s don't have axle u-joints unless someone put D27 shafts in. D25s have bendix joints with 5 balls. I have seen the bendix ends open up and the balls fall out causing wheel lock up.

 

25s had 3 types of knuckle joint over the years later ones like my 1960 had u-joints in the knuckles.

 

What are the three types then?

 

Rippza, the one you described and the typical cross shaft.

This thread has some info but I thought there was a better dialog on one of the cj2 or cj3 sites

axle shaft types

 

Yep, a lot of D25's came with Spicer axle shafts, wagons, pickups, and FC's included. Perhaps not a real CV joint but I believe them to be significantly stronger than the Bendix or Rzeppa. There is a lot more bearing surface contact in the cardan joint.

 

There were four kinds of u-joints used in the D25. In addition to the three mentioned above, some of the WWII MB/GPWs originally had Tracta u-joints:

 

First thing I would check are the clearance between the tie rod, drag link and springs. Mine was rubbing, primarily because the springs had a retainer clip directly below the tie rod.

other possibility is tire rub on the frame or springs.

 

Thanks for all the replies guys!

The tires clear the springs at full lock, but not by a lot. Maybe 1/2"?
When I received the Jeep, the tie rod adjustment bolt/band would catch a little bit on the passenger side spring, which is why I did the tie rod flip. lots of clearance now!


I am leaning towards it being an axle joint binding.
I get two different, but almost assuredly related "pops" out of the front end.
1) Stationary. If I turn the wheel full-right it pops right before hitting the limit screws and then again as the wheel is returned to center. This pop is consistent, but I can't feel where the pop is coming from. It must be internal to the axle though because all the exterior bits are tight.
2) Dynamic: During a hard left-hand U-turn at low speeds something will start going "bang bang bang" underneath the Jeep. You can feel it in the steering wheel. It sounds metallic, not like a tire knob hitting a spring, nor do I see any evidence of the tire hitting the spring.

The guy who built the Jeep thinks it's the locker in the rear. A Lock-Right locker was installed in the rear. He thinks I should remove the locker, but could that cause the front end to bind up though? I have been in a lot of Jeeps with lockers and never heard of the front ends banging around because of it.

I really didn't want to tear apart the axles, but I think that's the next logical step. I have no idea what's in there and what the condition is.

JW60,
I will check the kingpin bearings. I suppose if the bearings had a flat in the race or are bound up, that could cause the knuckles to "index" or pop. That's certainly easier to check than pulling the axles out.

 

I think you have no choice but to tear down the axles. It isn't that big of a job anyway and while you are at it you can service the king pins, pack the wheel bearings, and replace the seals. What you describe, especially the banging noice during a turn, certainly sounds like an axle joint failure, and there is no way a locker in the rear would cause noises like that from the front end.

Make sure on reassembly that whichever axles you have have the proper end play set up. A Jeep that old could have any combination of parts. On early axles the axle ends were threaded and end play was controlled with washers/shims, on later axles as should be in your Jeep, the threaded ends and shims were eliminated and end play is controlled by a different bushing in the spindle and a snap ring on the stub axle. Years ago a misguided idea was prevalent that it was okay to cut off the threaded end of the early axles to clear for a lockout hub, but this is a bad idea and can, or depending on which joint will, cause premature failure of the joint.

 

Are the different axle styles interchangeable if you are replacing the whole thing?
I thought I read somewhere that the Rzeppa joints were the most desirable and allow for the greatest steering angle. If I do feel that the axle joints warrant replacement, should I "upgrade" them to anything?

Also, what kind of oil/grease should be in these axles? I read somewhere that people pack them with grease, while some use 90 weight gear oil and some make a slurry mix of the two?

 

Don't pack them with grease. Yes, the joints are interchangeable, but you have to have the right setup ro setting the endplay as I explained.

Instead of grease, you need to use something that will flow. The original lubricant specified in the manual is no longer available. Some make "knuckle pudding" which is a mixture of 140 Wt gear oil and chassis grease (recipe on the Novak site), and there is a guy who goes by "Metalshaper" who sells a lubricant specifically designed for this application.

If you use grease of any kind, including the "Corned Grease" many promote, you will not get good service from your axle joints.

I use "knuckle pudding" as described on the Novak site.

 

Personally I would go with the Spicer style shaft. If it fails it fails at the universal joint and can be fixed with a $20 part. Tire size and physical knuckle travel are likely to limit turning anyway.

 

Yep. IMO, silly to use anything other than Spicer.

 

Guys, just to be crystal clear on this (please correct me if I screw this up):

The front axle get two different lubricants.
The knuckles get "Knuckle Pudding" per the Novak guide, and the pumpkin gets GL-5 80W-90 weight gear oil.

The "Balls" of my steering knuckles were bone dry. I applied some way oil to them just to coat them with something temporarily. When I removed the locking hubs they were packed with what looked like fairly typical, albeit slightly dirty red chassis grease.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse... but wouldn't Mobilux or Texaco Starplex NLGI Grade 1 greases work for the knuckles rather than me making a mess?

 

Yes, two different lubricants.

For the knuckles, if you have a Tractor Supply Co. near you, they sell a “00” grease in quart bottles that works well. It won’t let me post a link.

The grease is intended to melt and become fluid to fling around and also lubricate the kingpin bearings. It’s a mess. Just something you have to accept with old jeep ownership, or swap in a Dana 30.

 

With all due respect, the king pin bearings are not lubricated by the lube inside the knuckles, though it is a very persistent misunderstanding.

The king pin bearings should be serviced by packing the bearings with wheel bearing grease at regular intervals depending on use and conditions, this is the only way they are lubricated. I service mine once a year, and after anytime I have been out fording streams.