struggling with a v6 in a cj2a

Struggled last night when trying to figure out where to locate the advance adapter engine mounts for the v6 install.

I've heard that the engine needs to be slightly angled towards the passinger/right side. The way it sits now, the engine is level (side to side), but seems to be more to the left/drivers side.

With the engine/trans/t-case together, the trans/t-case skid plate was loosly bolted to the frame (did to so I don't have to change drive shaft lengths). Then the Advance Adapters headers were installed. The engine seems to be back far enough (if its too far forward, the headers rub on the frame rails). From an up/down perspective, if the engine is too far up, the hood would hit the air cleaner. If to far down, the headers will rub the frame. The right side engine mount will work, but the intermediate steering shaft (between the column and the gear) is right in the way.

Should anyone have pictures of a v6 install in a cj2a using Advance Adapters engine mounts, I would appreciate viewing them. Of course, any suggestions on doing this are appreciated.

 

Everyone mounts an engine swap a little differently. There is no absolutly perfect placement. Some decide to make a bubble on the hood for clearance. Others may chose to heat and bend the headers out a little to mount the engine lower.
Some do a body lift to get more clearance. Some mount the engine high-- others low.
Usually the steering is designed around the engine swap. If you are using stock steering, then the box shaft and arm will almost touch the engine block. If you are using stock brake and clutch pedals, then the brake pedal cast arm may have to be heated and bent to clear the bell housing.

Siginaw steering and swing pedals provide more engine clearance.
It is not uncommon to have to modify headers a little to get them to fit when an engine is swapped in. If a CJ5 came with a Buick V6 from the factory-stock then after market headers almost always fit with no modifications--- but when swapping into a Cj2a or 3a/b it is not uncommon to have to modify the headers by heating and bending them with great care.

Usually a Buick V6 engine is offset about 1 to 2 inches toward the driver's side. Many doing the swap move the trans/tcase cross member foward an inch or so for firewall clearance. Others leave the cross member exactly where it is (stock) which sometimes requires a small modification of the firewall--- or just denting the firewall with a hammer for about 1/2 inch clearance--- Depending on how high the engine is angled. Many use low profile air cleaners.

Hope this helps--

 

Thanks for the thoughts...Seems that i need to figure a way to move the entire powertrain towards the passenger side.

 

Jerry
FYI
my V6 is offset to the drivers side by 1 inch; I still use the stock master cylinder.
from the inside of the pass frame rail to center of crankshaft bolt is 13-1/2"
same measurement from drivers side is 12-1/2"
from outer most edge of crank pulley to stock front x memeber is approx 6"
my bellhousing is approx 1" from firewall hump opening
my x member is moved forward approx 1-1/2" from stock location
as steverdenver mentioned above, they are all just a little bit different depending on steering, exhaust, personal preferences, etc.
you are correct to stop and think and work out the placement issues.
I would think that you have to roughly position the trans/t/case levers in their prospective floor openings and work from that.
I used stock CJ 5/6 engine frame mounts in my conversion; drivers side had to be notched for previously installed sagi swap.
my air cleaner is from a 70's GM car that used 2g without the spacer seen on V6 in Jeep; engine higher is better for front d/shaft clearance in starter/bellhousing area; but you have to watch your height for air cleaner clearance.
here are some general pics of mine since the rad is out for repair right now; BTW, I have been using the 4 cyl radiator since the conversion 20 years ago; relocation of the lower outlet is necc for V6 use.
anyway, ask any questions and I can give more measurements if needed.
In my opinion, your better offf to toss the AA or Novak mounts and build your own or use the stock V6 frame mounts; this is no attack on either company; they have made them "universal fit" for obvious reasons; I was not happy with the fit on vanguards Jeep when we did his a couple weeks ago; too much excess hanging down below frame; too much excess above frame if turned around; we only used them because he had purchased them.

 

oops, forgot the pics

here are the pics

 

more.....

although some folks here have thought my steering shaft conversion "abnormal", "unusual", "different" where it cuts through the frame mount, it is "trail rated" (oops, sorry DC) for over 22 years now, with no problems whatsoever.

 

Jerry, if you also look very closely at pic oo4 of headers on driver side, you will see where we cut out 1" and re-welded the header tube at cylinder #5; the weld is visible right next to the dipstick handle loop.
I opted to cut the header rather than hack the fender; the headers are AA V6 conversion headers

 

I know that each swap is different, But I gotta say that the mesurements and pictures seem very helpful. My 5 has a 225 swaped in but I have a flatfender that at some point in the future I am going put a V6 into it. The information and pictures of Jim's Jeep may not be exactly what everyones would be but sure answered some questions I had been pondering about mine....when I geta round to it. Said all that to say this. Could this thread be moved to the Tech section for future reference?

 

Seems like that to could be helpful. Probably lots out there thinking about doing this stuff but don't have a clue what they are about to be in for. A little more information alwys is helpful.

 

jpflat,

does your brake pedal clear the bellhousing with that engine so close to the left side??

JB

 

As to size and engine mount location, are 198 blocks the same as 225 blocks? Been watching this because I am working on my '46. It came with a 198 v6 installed but had a muncie 4spd/ d18 setup. I have a conventional 225 / t14 / d18 drive train that will be going back in. Didn't have headers or any exhaust for that matter. Sag. p/s already setup. The p/o 'polly used AA engine mounts. I am hoping the p/o took the time to set up things and considered things outlined in this thread.

 

>>>>As to size and engine mount location, are 198 blocks the same as 225 blocks?>>>

198 and 225 are roughly the same size--- I can't remember for sure but the exhaust manifold pattern might vary a little-- The heads are different. But the motor mount placement is very very close to the same. The 198 is patterned after the 215 V8 and uses different crankshaft, different bellhousing than a 225.

 

yes, not a problem
the factory Jeep CJ V6 frame mounts offset the engine to the drivers side
pass side is longer than drivers side

 

O.K. My opinion is simply measure the heck out of everything before removing the origional. I spent a day with a atpe measure and still didnt get everything I should have measured.My problems stemed from a crossmember with about 100 different holes in it. i couldnt remember which holes it was mounted in so I had to take alot of extra time making sure the drivetrain was straight and all clearances such as steering and front driveshaft were met. measure now, becuse you cant measure it after its pulled out.

 

measure twice, cut once
IIRC, we installed/removed vanguards V6/trans/t-case several times checking various concerns before we even marked where we thought the frame mounts should be welded.
then removed for welding of mounts; then re-installed to re-check again.
it does help to have several pairs of hands and eyes helping with this task.
his crossmember remained in the F4 factory position
we mocked up the steering, and with headers, everything looked good to go!
his body is also fiberglass
we were concerned with bellhousing clearance to the firewall; I believe there was not as much room to work with on the glass body; we ended up with about 1" of clearance for the bellhousing, valve cover clearance worked out good also.
conversions just can't be rushed, and you have to take your time and think it through thoroughly