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71 Wheeling Rig

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Fireball, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Feb 3, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Veradale, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
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    6,718
    You must really enjoy cleaning parts. I’ll send you some if you don’t mind. :sneak:
     
    Fireball likes this.
  2. Feb 3, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Yeah, it's right up there with getting a root canal or unclogging the toilet.
     
    Dwins1, Stakebed, fhoehle and 3 others like this.
  3. Feb 3, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan

    i've got some more as well
     
  4. Feb 8, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
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    FINALLY have the last of the transfer case parts cleaned up and ready for the rebuild kit (after some more gasket scraping):
    [​IMG]

    Eccept I don't have a rebuilt kit. I need to bug Novak to see what the hold up is. I'm not even sure they've shipped it yet.

    The plan is to move on to the radiator project while I'm waiting for transmission and transfer case parts to show up.
     
    73 cj5 likes this.
  5. Feb 8, 2021
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
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    2,153
    :watch: Now, take it one step further. :twist:

    [​IMG]
     
    Danefraz and Fireball like this.
  6. Feb 8, 2021
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    Oct 25, 2006
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    Peter DeBella has transfer case parts that are NOS Willys Civilian Jeep CJ3B CJ5 - Transfer Case - Peter DeBella Jeep Parts www.debellajeepparts.com
    I bought stuff from him for my rebuild and it was good quality. I haven't run it yet because project fatigue. I also installed an AA taper bearing kit. Debella also has reasonably priced shift forks NOS.

    One thing, if you have wear on the intermediate shaft, expect you have wear on the inside of the intermediate gear. Also, I had weird noises from my D18 that I count ever deduce even after new bearings and all that.. I took it apart again and the entire gear set and main shaft was worn together to create that noise.
     
    fhoehle and Fireball like this.
  7. Feb 23, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Veradale, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
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    6,718
  8. Feb 23, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Let's see.
    • Got a bunch of wiring done in the shop.
    • Got the airlines up in the shop and the air compressor hooked up.
    • Got cabinets over the stove.
    • Installed an outlet, vent ducts, and a microwave over the stove.
    Oh, you mean Jeep stuff.
    • Picked up a very nice condition Ford T18 from ITLKSEZ. I think it will be a better transmission for the '71 than the T98. I will need to buy a D18 adapter though. I'll probably sell the T98/adpaters.
    • The Novak order finally showed up so I've got the rebuild kit to tackle the D18 and the machined input bearing retainer/pilot bearing to put a GM bellhousing on the Ford T18. It will make for a nice short setup:
    [​IMG]
    • Everything is here to start the radiator project. I think I'll do that next.
     
    timsresort, blalp!, fhoehle and 3 others like this.
  9. Feb 24, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Started the radiator project tonight.

    Used the Form-A-Funnel so draining didn't make a ridicules mess:
    [​IMG]

    I'd say 95% of the coolant ended up in the bucket:
    [​IMG]

    Pulled the grill and radiator off. You can see how they hacked out the back of the crossframe for fan clearance but the tiny 15" fan is still close anyway. Some nice cracks are forming at the corners of the notched section:
    [​IMG]

    The old cooling pack with shortened grill, chopped down radiator, anemic electric pusher helper fan, and janky fan shroud:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here's how the shortened the grill. The cut it halfway back, did some trimming, slide the rear over the front and tacked together with some gas welds:
    [​IMG]

    This will need to be re-done to fit the new radiator and put a duct back in for the heater fresh air intake.
     
    blalp!, ITLKSEZ and 47v6 like this.
  10. Feb 24, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    5,838
    Here's the size comparison of the old vs the new radiators. The new one doesn't look that much bigger, it's got 30% more core area:
    [​IMG]

    It's about as big as you can fit in a CJ5/6:
    [​IMG]

    I plan on going up to a 17" engine driven fan but will need to trim the crossframe for clearance:
    [​IMG]

    I'm upgrading the pusher to a 135 CFM 14" fan with thermostatic control. This should help at low speeds.
    [​IMG]

    Next step cutting the crossframe lower for more radiator clearance. I've got some 2x2 tubing I'll weld inside for strength. The cracks and missing chuncks will get fixed at the same time:
    [​IMG]

    That's tomorrow's project.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
    melvinm, timsresort, locrwln and 7 others like this.
  11. Feb 24, 2021
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    Mar 31, 2007
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    When you start reworking the cross member, radius the corners at the end of your cuts. It will stop the cracks from forming at the hard right angle corners of your cuts. If you look back through the numerous pictures of frame and body cracks that people have posted, the vast majority involve some type of a hard right angle. This could be where something was cut or where a couple of components are joined together.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  12. Feb 25, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Tonight is why I needed to get the welder outlet and air lines working in the shop. It's plasma cutter time!

    No turning back now. Started hacking the front crossframe:

    Piece:
    [​IMG]

    By piece:
    [​IMG]

    By piece:
    [​IMG]

    By piece:
    [​IMG]

    By piece:
    [​IMG]

    Found another crack in the process:
    [​IMG]

    This is the general idea. 2x2x1/8" tubing inserted into what's left of the crossframe. Then LOTS of welding. Gaps will be pounded shut or filled. The intent is to have a fairly stiff beam with the 2x2 while using the original crosframe attachments to spread the load into the frame rails.:
    [​IMG]some

    I need to do a lot of cleanup grinding, trim the rear of the crossframe for fan clearance, and drill holes for rosette welds. Then it's ready for welding. Hopefully tomorrow night.

    A quick test fit. Clearances seem good. Fan to radiator, hood to radiator cap, ...etc.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Feb 25, 2021
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    Why do you "need" to keep the front cross member at all? If you're going this big, why don't you just cut the whole thing out, plate the side rails and start fresh? If you have fatigue cracking of the original cross member, that metal is fatigued enough that when you weld on it, the base metal will have the possibility of cracking next to your weld.

    What my own experience has shown me is that if you're going to go this big, go the extra 20% and save 100% of the future work that will present itself.

    One more thing and this may not be applicable, I have purchased some steel plate from a local supplier of pure cheap chinesium grade and I am certain it is produced exclusively from compressed mill scale. Some other DOM tube I have purchased and paid a bit for from "online metals" is of a significantly superior grade. Thyssen Krupp is the parent company and the quality is night and day.
     
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  14. Feb 25, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I thought long and hard about this. I agree cutting it all out and putting in a new crossframe is a better solution, but I have to balance it with my abilities and wanting to get this part of the job done and moving on to the next.

    Reasons against a new crossframe:
    • It will be a lot of work getting the existing crossframe out. The ends are riveted and have tabs that stick through the frame and are welded.
    • To properly put in a new crossframe and spread the loads into the rails, I would need to add gussets top and bottom.
    • The "bottom" thing is a problem for be because I'm terrible at overhead welding.
    • I would need to do a lot more disassembly for access.
    Reasons for keeping the old one:
    • It's already well attached to the frame rails in a manner that spreads out the load.
    • The grill mount is already located where it needs to be.
    • Every existing crack was due to the PO cutting a chunk of the crossframe out causing stress risers. The top cracks have been completely removed and only 1/4" of the bottom one will remain. I'll stop drill and weld that up. With the stress risers removed, I'm not too concerned about new cracks forming.
    • I've cut it in such a way that all my welds except some plug welds on the bottom can be done from the top.
    • It will get me up and running pretty quickly. If I end up getting *really* serious with an offroad build in the future this will probably all get replaced anyway.
    If I had a bare frame I could flip over, I'd absolutely change it out, but then it would be apart for 20 years like my CJ2. Baby steps for me.

    As for the metal, this piece of tubing came from Online Metals. I've always like them. The only good thing about living in Seattle was ordering metal will call and going to their warehouse to pick it up at lunch time. No shipping! They always have quality products and good service. I still use them today. I typically don't need much metal and the local metal supply/machine shop closed up last year.
     
    Buildflycrash, 47v6 and ITLKSEZ like this.
  15. Feb 26, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Tonight's work.

    Rough cut the fan clearance on the back of the crossframe:
    [​IMG]

    Stop drilled and ground out the remaining crack:
    [​IMG]

    Then welded it up:
    [​IMG]

    Holes drilled for plug welds. Then lots of finish grinding, sanding, and degreasing:
    [​IMG]

    Clamped and ready to weld:
    [​IMG]

    Welded up. I need to practice my plug welds. I was putting too much heat into the front layer and it wanted to drip away:
    [​IMG]

    The welds on the back are not as pretty due to poor access, but they should hold:
    [​IMG]

    I still need to fill the remaining triangles and do 4 plug welds on the bottom. Even then, it feels super stout. I can stand on the grill mount and it barely flexes at all.

    I should be able to button this up Saturday and start working on the grill shroud.
     
  16. Feb 26, 2021
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    i try to stay totally on the rear part and the puddle just flows out to the top . If that makes sense...
     
    Fireball likes this.
  17. Feb 26, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,486
    I've replaced the front cross member in my '63 build to move the radiator and make room for the longer 231 water pump. I've hacked apart enough of them over the years I just cut them out and redo one how I want it... Sounds like more work, but in the end its MUCH easier than retro fitting IMOP.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  18. Feb 26, 2021
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    While you have that front frame uncovered you might consider putting in a cross brace to your Saginaw box. It is supposed to reduce the flexing of the frame horns when turning. I put one on mine a couple years ago and it does improve the steering a bit.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  19. Feb 26, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    That is on my list of things to do.
     
    homersdog likes this.
  20. Feb 26, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    Nice work. What's the application for the new radiator? I'm getting ready to do this, and picked up a wide-radiator grill and am hoping I can use the wide radiator from a commando.
    Tim
     
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