Bad Starter?

I have a 198 and it’s very hard to start when cold. Doesn’t sound like it’s cranking as fast as it should. Battery is a brand new Delco AGM 760 CCA.

is slow cranking a symptom of a bad starter?

does anyone know if the 198 uses the same starter as the 225, or how I would otherwise identify the correct starter to purchase?

any thoughts on the cheap starters available at rock auto? They have a remanufactured “pure energy” brand for $26 including core charge. 1969 JEEP CJ5 3.7L 225cid V6 Starter Motor | RockAuto

 

how old are the battery cables / bad connections
your local FLAPS , should be able to bench test it

 

How are the starter/battery wires and connections?

 

Not sure how old the cables are. The Jeep wasn’t running at all when I got it earlier this year. I rewired the entire thing, but reused the battery cables. So the actual connections are recent, but the cables themselves are of unknown age.

 

You could try a jumper cable right to the starter. Be sure the rig is in neutral

If it is still slow, possibly starter brushes are worn, and/or commutator dirty.


Battery may be new, that doesn't mean it is okay.

A $26 starter??? Do they sell magic beans too?

 

What’s the best way to do that? Is it as simple as hooking up jumper cables to the starter and then touching them to the battery?

 

Double check your ground strap. You may have a good ground to the frame, but are lacking one to the engine. There is usually one in the motor mount area going from the frame to the block.

 

I second the suggestion to check your battery cables closely. I've seen it where they have very bad corrosion underneath the insulation and there's actually very little connection left. Replaced the cables and there was a world of difference in performance.

If your cables check good and your starter needs attention you might want to check for a local rebuild shop. We have one locally who can rebuild a starter for a very reasonable price. Might be better to have a rebuilt original than a super cheap import one.

 

Do not overlook the starter solenoid. I sold dozens, maybe hundreds of starter solenoid back in the day when I worked parts counter. These Delco starters use a single type of starter solenoid that does not last as long as the starter motor.

It's been a while since I've looked at a Delco solenoid, but they are very common part, and you should be able to take the old one apart and clean the contacts.

Agree with check and clean the cables, and the grounds. If the cables look ok they probably are, but you need to clean the ends and the battery terminals thoroughly.

The 198 and 215 starters are probably the same, but not the same as the 225. If they were, the listings should show them with the same number, and they don't. Probably - online listings have a lot of errors and omissions. If the Range Rover 215 is the same, you have several options there. Donny might know, or your FLAPS could order one in and you could compare on the store counter. They should do that for you if you're a good customer.

 

Basically, yes. This would also be a way to bypass the solenoid.

 

I’m going to try to get under the Jeep sometime this week (it’s under a car cover and raining right now). Will check all cable connections/grounds, and see if it operates differently via jumper cables.

I found this remy delco reman starter for a 198 on carid. Same part number (25236) as the listings for 225 starters on rock auto.

If I decide to order a new starter, I’ll definitely pull the old one first to compare to the images online.

carID 198 Buick starter: Remy® - Remanufactured Starter

rock auto 225 Jeep starters:
1970 JEEP CJ5 3.7L 225cid V6 Starter Motor | RockAuto

 

I did some more poking around today, and it seems like the slow starting issue is actually related to fuel delivery (or lack thereof). If I pump the gas a lot before turning the key, like 30 pumps of the gas pedal, it starts up fairly easily. This is only a problem during a cold start - and this is California cold I’m talking about... like 45 degrees. Once fired up, it runs really good and is easy to restart.

I assume this means something on the carb needs to be adjusted or maybe cleaned out. I know this isn’t a lot of info to go on, but any suggestions? I did rebuild the carb when I first got the Jeep less than a year ago, but maybe I didn’t clean something good enough? Any specific part of the carb that is involved with start up that I should be paying special attention to?

Rochester 2g carb
198 motor
Electric fuel pump

 

Okay. But you also said slow cranking?

 

yes, but it only seems to crank slow when there isn’t enough fuel. Once it has enough fuel, it cranks faster pretty much instantly. If that makes sense.

 

no, it doesn't make sense. maybe when it gets fuel the engine firing helps it?

 

yes I think that’s what’s going on. Getting some fuel ignited is helping the engine crank faster and then it fires up.

But if I don’t pump it a bunch before turning the key, it just cranks slowly because there is no fuel to ignite.

 

Actually, I do see engines that spin a little faster after cranking a bit, maybe fuel mix lubing the cylinders???

BUT it shouldn't be happening to begin with - if everything was in tune, including the starter, it would just spin and start.

 

Pumping the throttle to get the engine to start is caused by one of/combination of three things.
1 Choke open/not working
2 Accelerator pump inop
3 float bowl draining/empty
None of these should cause slow cranking. Cranking speed may rise as the engine tries to fire but that is masking the original issue.

I would suspect you are also fighting a bad accelerator pump, as pumping the throttle 30 or so times would seriously flood the engine if it were working properly.

 

Choke linkages were likely an issue. The fast idle cam has three “steps” but was only getting to the middle step with the choke lever pulled. I fabricated some better linkages today that allow it to get into the fastest “step” and the engine did fire up immediately with the new linkage after sitting for a couple hours. but I can’t really be sure that fixed the issue until tomorrow morning when the engine is thoroughly cold.

That’s the most annoying part of all this. I can only tweak one thing, then I need to wait overnight until the engine is cold before seeing if I made any progress.

I also reset the idle needle screws yesterday. The engine seems to run best when they’re about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn out, and it actually started a bit easier this morning as well (although it still took 30 pumps). but everything I read online says they should be 1.5 to 2 turns out. Not sure what that’s all about. Seems odd that it runs and starts better with those screws allowing less fuel to get thru.

 

Before you 'tinker' a bunch of stuff, you must do a standard tune-up to be sure everything is at specification. Basic SOP.

Otherwise you will be chasing your tail, perhaps de-tuning the carb to fix a timing issue, for instance.