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The Big Blue Car, Jw60's Expedition Max & Ozark Lite 1650bh

Discussion in 'Quitters' Club' started by Jw60, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Sep 16, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Since I signed for it I might as well be proud of it...

    Replacing the "little blue car"
    Complementing the "grey car"
    Likely to tow several "blue jeeps"
    I now present the "Big blue car"

    as advertised:
    [​IMG]6397821 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397820 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397827 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397824 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397825 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397826 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    [​IMG]6397822 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    And home sizing up the camper:
    [​IMG]20200916_220949 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Quick specs:
    May 1st 2019 Ford Expedition Max
    Former Enterprise rental with 39k miles in one year. XLT with 4x4

    Some things to know:
    All expedition of this era have a hitch with 4 and 7 pin receptacles. This one still has untouched dielectric grease in the recepticals. It looks like the receiver might have been used once or twice. A few paint chips on the doors, a missing headrest button, and the recirculate button isn't lighting up.
    All expeditions have the 3.5 EcoBoost with 375hp and 470lbft but the platinum is 400hp 480lbft. Then the offroad and towing packages have 3.73s with limited slip differentials heavy duty radiator and 2 speed transfercase to get a maximum towing capacity of 9000lbs....
    This doesn't have that. It should have open 3.31 axles and a single speed transfercase for 6600lbs towing capacity.
    That's about perfect for an old jeep and trailer, or our 4000lb camper.
    There is a difference in the roof rack load rating when you have a solid roof its 200lbs of bikes and cargo with a glass roof you can only have 125lb on the rack. I plan to put the bikes up there so that was important to me.
    The drive home felt like a redeye on a continental embraer regional jet. Some bumps here and there but mostly buffeting from the wind and an occasional downshift that spooled the turbos into a pleasant song. I feel like even with 3 Overdrive gears and 3.31 axles it had plenty of highway torque and peak fuel economy.
    Soo far so good.
    Hopefully this thread will help others make informed decisions for there next tow vehicles.
    I'll post up more pictures and hopefully document the trailer brake controller install.
    Then update with my towing reviews.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    hudsonhawk, Glenn, 73 cj5 and 3 others like this.
  2. Sep 17, 2020
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    That's a beautiful color! I've heard great things about the new Expeditions, as far as being a family highway rig. I hope it works out perfectly for you.
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  3. Sep 19, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Took this on a good long normally 200mi round trip thru the country roads to my parents. Turns out a bridge was closed which led to a wild detour on narrow country roads.

    I'm impressed with the independent rear suspension. It does roll like a fullsize van but you don't have to worry about a pothole waking the baby.

    I'm thinking whoever decided to have a matching gear selector and drive selector needs a kick in the loin. Have you ever tried to go from economy to normal mode and found yourself going from drive to neutral?

    The drive modes are very noticeable changes. In economy it will not downshift as quick when it hits a hill and makes use of the turbos for torque. Normal is pretty good but would downshift with every fart in the wind. With as much giddy up in normal, I'm scared to use sport.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  4. Sep 20, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    This weekend I got a little trailer prep in. Backed the car up a few times, tested the lights and even got the Ozark lite typed in on the trailer list (it logs trailer miles and that's about it) don't know why but the aux power on the 7way wasn't working until I turned on something here or there. Everything looks to be working I just have to wait for the pigtail to get here then I dig into the dash to unplug the trailer plug from the back of a cubby.

    Call me a simple man (good song btw) but I am getting a lot of joy from the little hitch zoom feature on the backup camera.
    [​IMG]20200920_170822 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    [​IMG]20200920_170932 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Got the hitch sorted out. Our flex had this mount with the max rise but on this one it needed the max drop. I was worried I would need something special but the hitch is really accessible.
    Then I checked the load bar setting. I feel it could use another washer but it doesn't have any extra room on the pin.
    Without the trailer the front and rear had 11" between the top of the wheel well and the top of the rim. With the trailer the rear dropped to 10" and I'm about 10.5 or 10.25" with load bars but this is rated at 6000lb with 600lb tongue load carrying so I'm going to run it and see.
    [​IMG]20200920_170650 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    [​IMG]20200920_171616 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    [​IMG]20200920_171621 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    Sounds like the little pigtail for the brake controller will take 2 weeks too get here. This uses the same cord as the flex but I had to hard wire the power and brake wire on it since it wasn't a factory tow package. They still had the plug hidden under the dash with stoplight and ground. This one has been a lot easier.
    Our trailer is a little narrower than others but it is the biggest in length and width that will fit in the driveway. I think I'm good with the stock mirrors, here is what I see:
    [​IMG]20200920_171924 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    [​IMG]20200920_171908 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    That puts us at the final approval by my biggest critic. Here it is hooked up with bars on and the jack up.
    [​IMG]20200920_172133 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
    Looks like a big thumbs up to me.
     
    colojeepguy likes this.
  5. Oct 3, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Quick update after the 50 mile drive with the trailer to the campground. The EcoBoost 3.5 and 10speed are great. It pulled hills at 2k that the na 3.5 flex would be in 3rd and floored. Brakes seem good.
    Only complaints are:
    Epic body roll / dive when cornering
    Randomly pulls to the side.
    Best I can figure is I've got the load bars set too aggressive (it's a 4000lb equil-i-zer with all 6 shims) seemed fine without the trailer.
     
  6. Oct 4, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Home and kiddos are finally in bed.
    Here's the site (no I didn't check out the VW pop top)
    [​IMG]20201003_145159 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Here's the satellite view with the Missouri river:
    [​IMG]Screenshot_20201003-181010_Earth by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    This was a rare moment of peace:
    [​IMG]20201003_162023 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Then about 5 min later the little ones were done with sitting around.
    [​IMG]20201003_155050 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    This was my get by for brake controller wiring. I intend to get a bracket made to keep the controller in place then I can tuck the wires away neatly.
    [​IMG]20200926_163721 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    My wife drove about 15miles from the campground to the interstate and I drove the rest. It seemed much better at handling on the way home or I just knew what to expect / let the wife drive the fun twisty stuff.

    I can get used to her splitting the drives with the trailer.
     
    hudsonhawk and Glenn like this.
  7. Oct 13, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    This is a story the oldest wrote at school last week.
    [​IMG]20201013_204839 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    We went camping again this past weekend. The truck read 11.7 mpg average going home with a good wind from 4 o'clock most of the way. I did use 2wd tow haul. I can't find my post of mpg when pulling with the flex but this seems to do the same if not a little better on fuel when towing. The 27gal fuel tank is definitely a lot nicer than the 17 gal in the flex. I don't know if this one has the smart electronic shocks but i have not noticed any more diving or rolling of the truck with the trailer.

    The flex seemed like 100mi was the most I would want to tow on a good calm dry day. The expedition feels like it could easily do a multi day road trip.
     
  8. Oct 14, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    It's definitely more enjoyable with a more than adequate tow vehicle. Glad it's working out well. Looks like fun was had by all!
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  9. Oct 14, 2020
    OnlyOneDR

    OnlyOneDR Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    R
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    Air up all the tires on the tow vehicle. Remember that since the W/D hitch is pushing down on the front that the tires are doing a lot more work than they usually do. When I tow near max capacity I have the tires aired up to near max rated cold pressure.

    Also, the stock rear sway bar is probably not adequate enough to help counter the chassis roll. Hellwig makes a replacement heavier rate bar that should stiffen that up. There are quite a few posts on other forums about this generation of Expedition being feeling top-heavy especially when towing.
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  10. Oct 14, 2020
    Jw60

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    Sedalia MO.
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    I've got a few items to upgrade:
    Mama wants remote start for winter
    I'm thinking of sampling forscan and enabling the global windows on both cars. (I'm done crawling thru the trunk to thaw the doors on the flex)
    Bambi lights
    Factory in dash brake controller

    Now antisway bar
    The wd hitch is the lightest I could find at 400lb tounge 4000lb gross. The front squatted .25" with the load bars on

    taxes on this and replacing the front a-arms on the flex killed the auto funds for about 3 months.
     
  11. Nov 11, 2020
    Jw60

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    Sedalia MO.
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    I scheduled some appointments at my preferred ford dealership (not the local stealership). oil change and rear toe adjuster recall for the flex day one then oil change and a good look at the expeditions clatter on cold start / hot idle noise for the 2nd day.
    Got a call that they did not do the oil change... the cam phasers are bad and need replaced (warranty).
    I'm not terribly surprised. It's an issue on the EcoBoost but most aren't bad enough for Ford to do anything.
    Bad to have the issue. Good it's got enough miles for it to be bad enough to address.
    Good it's still hitting 23mpg at 65mph.
    We will see if that is better or worse after the work is done.
     
  12. Dec 27, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Decided to start putting my camper trailer comments and quick trip reports here (trailer purchase thread was in off topic). The truck and trailer are a really good pair for what expense we have invested into them.
    Trailer is on track to be paid off 2023
    Truck should be 2024 if we roll the camper fund into it and I don't buy any jeep parts... :rolleyes:
    No I'm not rich, I just make sheetmetal drawings for food service equipment with my bachelors in aviation... and my wife is awesome with math and keeping me away from the money.

    [​IMG]20200307_103305 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr

    Trailer is a Ozark lite 1650bh was built in 2019 by Forrest river. This is an early early early Ozark lite. My inlaws have a 1660fq that was built 3 months later and it has a lot if little differences, from powered vents to a different front skin.
    Anyway back to our little bunk house. We bought it In feb 2020 before covid19 got ashore. It was on the dealer lot over the winter and played a bit of bumper trailer so it was marked down enough for us to look.
    Biggest issue I have with the trailer is it is a single axle.
    The trailer brakes suck. If for no other reason to buy a tandem axle trailer it is to have good brakes. Other benefits... Smoother ride, less load placement sensitivity, better stability, ie less excitement with a blown tire.
    The appliances are typical bottom of the line.
    Insulation is there.
    40gal freshwater tank.
    30gal grey
    30gal black
    3500lb axle
    Typical Coleman mach rooftop noise maker.
    Inside it has a household queen bed up front.
    The bunks are doubles with a cut corner and the typical 4seat dinette is present.
    No slides, no popouts, just a simple box on wheels.

    Pics to come:
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
    jzeber and givemethewillys like this.
  13. Mar 21, 2021
    Jw60

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    Quick update... camper is paid off
    Truck gets 22mpg without wind.
    Little EcoBoost does not like a buffering headwind.
     
    Boyink and Fireball like this.
  14. Mar 21, 2021
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Congrats on paying off the camper! We want to buy one so bad, but need a truck first. Our Chrysler Pacifica has a 1500lb tow rating, so can barely tow a utility trailer. And of course, the jeep has a similar tow "rating".

    Are you still liking the expedition?
     
  15. Mar 21, 2021
    Jw60

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    Yes we like it. The only thing better would be the heavy tow package for the built in brake controller and heavier axles with 3.73s . (Not an option when buying used rentals) and maybe a higher trim for remote start.

    That said I still feel like we got a great value on ours so adding a few little things isn't a big issue. We have 3 boys in carseats and my wife loves the seat anchors. Her daily routine is much easier with three across and it gets basically the same mpg as the Flex.
     
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  16. Mar 21, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan Fly by the seat of your pants

    Central City, NE
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    A ford!?!?!? :worry:
     
  17. Mar 22, 2021
    Jw60

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    Sure is.
    A suburban would typically have a 5.3 so for the price point we have the most hp and torque for towing the camper but Monday to Friday my wife thinks she has a 4x4 minivan.

    A Tahoe Suburban Yukon Escalade have a Ford built 10 speed so no worries it will be an easy turbo v8 swap of any color if needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  18. Mar 24, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan Fly by the seat of your pants

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    i wouldn't go with something that new, what with emissions and stuff.
     
  19. Mar 24, 2021
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Emissions equipment haven't been a problem in gasoline vehicles since the 70s. When was the last time you heard about a problem with a catalytic converter? Not often.

    The "problems" with diesel emissions equipment are another animal, but sort of the same. Diesel tech hasn't had nearly the development as that of gasoline engines, so is in the infancy stage.

    Modern emissions equipment is pretty reliable. My concern is all of the electronics that seem to be built on a 5 year end-of-life .
     
  20. Mar 24, 2021
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I'm not sure where you're getting your information. Gasoline emissions equipment has gotten considerably better since around 96 or so with the advent of OBD-II and a certain measure of standardization across manufacturers. Pre-96, it's an absolute crapshoot. Being a guy that's into OBS Ford Pickups, and having worked on plenty of other 70's-80's makes, i can assure you, the emissions systems, particularly the EGR systems are garbage. There's alot more to an emissions system than just the catalytic converter.

    And on the Diesel side of things, Diesel tech has been dealing with this for at least as long as gasoline has, when I worked for Detroit Diesel in the late 90's, the first EGR systems were released for the OTR packages, but they'd been in use and development on stationary units for probably a decade before that. Part of the biggest problem with a catalytic style system on a Diesel engine in a mobile application has to do with just keeping it from rattling itself apart, and dealing with the constantly varying RPM and exhaust pressures, that don't exist in a stationary, fixed RPM application. It's less an issue of not knowing how to clean up the diesel exhaust, and more an engineering issue, in how to do it, in such a manner that you're not constantly having to be working on the thing.
     
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