Matkins or AFW?

Hello all,

My frame is shot. It has bent to the point that the metal fatigue leaves it sitting at a different angle every time I drive it. I have got to replace it, and would rather go with a quality aftermarket product than have to live with my own shortcomings as a welder. Here's the dilema The two companies that I've heard of are Matkins and AFW. The only place I can find anything bad said about either one is on the other's website.

There's vigorous debate on the company sites about mandrel bent 3/16 box tube vs welded 3/16. The only thing not debated is that the welded is more expensive ($2400) vs the mandrel bent ($1700-$2000 depending on the options). Matkins mandrel bent is actually cheaper than AFW's, despite their claims of superiority.

I think either one is going to be much stronger than the factory '72 c channel, but if I'm going to go to all this expense and trouble I want to know what I'm buying. Does anybody have any experience reccomendations regarding these two companies?

 

I wish I could give you an answer, but I don’t know much about either company. Have you considered finding a good donor frame you would be saving yourself a good piece of change.

 

Jeep upgraded the frames in '73-'74 after the 304 started causing cracks. I've got a 360, power steering, and bigger tires. I'm looking for something stronger than factory. Besides intermediate donor CJ6 frames are a little tough to find.

 

I'm not much help, but for way less than $2000 I would think you could locate and ship a rust free original and get extra parts with it. just my $.02

 

I personally prefer the AFW, as I don't like the "look" of the welded frames. I realize that the welded frames could very well be stronger, but with the options both companies offer, the end product is better than the original. It is for that reason that I wouldn't mind spending the money on an aftermarket frame. The frames are inherently stronger, they offer better mounting points, custom options, etc. By the time you find an original frame (and CJ6 frames aren't exactly just lying around your friendly neighborhood junkyard), make the necessary repairs, etc, etc, you may end up spending the same money, but you've certainly lost time, and time in the garage is time that could have been spent wheeling.

 

Realize that this is an Intermediate, and an OEM frame may not be that easy to come by. A 72-73 Commando frame would also work with some minor mods.

I'm curious why you attribute these changes in attitude to metal fatigue. I'd be more inclined to believe the frame had simply loosened up and you are seeing the movement of the rails wrt the crossmembers. Other than the front crossmember, aren't these frames riveted like the earlier frame? Either that, or the springs and bushings aren't loading/unloadng smoothly. I noticed these changes in my CJs too - but they were new and I didn't worry about them. Maybe not to the same degree that you do.

A tubing frame will be a lot more rigid than the OEM frame, for either manufacturer. To get the same flex you have with OEM, you'll need to think about changing the spring rates and attachment. Maybe coils with 4-links?

 

I have added heavy duty bumpers and crossmembers in an effort to make the frame more rigid. Little to no effect. The Jeep when viewed on the ground will vary in height by 2 or 3 inches on the drivers side between trips. When I put it up on a frame lift the front bumper sits at a 10-15 degree angle to the rear bumper. When driving off road, I can watch the front wheels deflect by 10-15 degrees with no movement in the steering wheel. I had someone turn the wheel while I watched underneath (after replacing two sets of wheel bearings, all tie rod ends, ball joints, steering box, drag link, shackles, bushings, etc....) and the frame is flexing where the steering box is attatched.

Keep in mind that this 33 year old frame has little to no rust.

Believe me when I tell you that the frame I have is shot, and that I am not satisfied with the strength of the stock unit. It died with a 304 and manual steering. Now it has a 360, power steering, and sees a lot more trails.

Time is also a factor. I own my own business and routinely work 70+ hrs a week. I'd much rather spend my free time driving it than working on it.

As to the suspension, I agree completely. I will have to do something different to compensate for the loss of frame flex, but its relatively easy to go to YJ springs when ordering a new frame. I'm thinking about SOA, but haven't decided yet.

I'm young enough (35) to drive this Jeep for another 33 years, so I want to build it right. The expense is an issue, but there's been a lot of money spent on this thing already, and I'm getting to be worried about its ability to get me back out of the woods.

 

Code Red, I used a Matkins frame on my 1956 CJ5 and was very happy with it, (I have since sold that Jeep, the one in my avatar). I posted some info on this forum awhile back
http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4817