Uncertain About Tubes Vs Tubeless

I read earlier posts about using tubes in CJ5 tires or keeping them tubeless. My particular concerns did not seem to be answered in those posts, so I start this new thread.

I have a 1966 CJ5 (driven from '66 until about '90; then dormant until my rebuild this past year) for which I always had tubes in the tires. It came that way, stock, in '66, and I put on about 70K miles over two sets of good 4 WD tires (with tubes). My driving was largely city and highway, but included a significant amount of Southwest desert field work in my 'younger days'. To replace the now dry-rotted (but tubes still holding air) tires as I get back on the road, I put on two front Firestone AT Destinations P205/75 R15s with tubes. The tire vendor didn't question me wanting tubes

Now, I want to replace the rear tires, so I checked pricing with a second vendor (for the same Firestones), and he questioned the tubes. He said, 'Why the tubes? If you get a puncture, you'll go flat immediately."

Well, I never thought of such outcome -- so, my question is: Is this a concern I should have on the highway if I use tubes? Is a tubeless more likely to slow-leak from a highway puncture (provided it's not severe) and therefore be safer? But I question whether my 1966 wheel rims will hold air with tubeless. Fifty years ago did wheels hold air, so to speak, at the tire beads? My inclination is to get tubes, but is this unnecessary with new Firestones (and my old wheel rims)? I'll keep the tubes in front, but I'm uncertain about what to do about the back wheels.

Your opinions -- and your tire experiences -- are appreciated. thank you -- Ron

 

Radial tubeless tires. Modern, good ride and safe. I plug my radial tires while on the rim and they do fine. Others will probably have other opinions, but I like new radials.

 

^This. But only if your rims were built for tubeless tires. If they have a seam down the middle, I doubt they'll hold air.

 

Glenn -- I believe the 'tire vendor' envisioned picking up a nail along the highway that pierces the tire and then the tube.....apparently leading to an immediate 'ppfffffttt' followed by flatness. (Is that to say, then, that tubeless tires, if pierced by a nail on the road, will only demonstrate a slow leak over time and not sudden flatness? I don't know.)

ITLKSEZ: If a 'seam down the middle' is an indicator, then that solves matters. I suppose the tire has to be off the rim first before one can see if there is such seam. That'd be at the tire dealer, I suppose.

47v6: well, these are radials (P205 75 R15), so they will apparently work, depending on whether a seam is present or not

-- Ron

 

Good information, Howard. I'll inquire about the quality of the tubes available to me, should I go that way (with tubes). And as I suspected, my old, stock wheels were unlikely intended for tubeless tires on them. -- thanks, Ron

 

I did many years in a tire shop but it was many years ago. Ummm, tubeless tires run cooler than tubed tires. Radial tires need radial tubes
A riveted wheel is for a tube type tire. Some people have smeared silicone caulk around the rivet heads to seal the rim. The other thing is the safety bead on tubeless rims.
Perhaps worthless information to you but it's all I came up with in a short time.

 

possible to also have wheels blasted and powdercoated, which would add may be 2 to 4 mil of baked on sealer around the rivets if riveted ... doesn't change the design of things.

 

I've run a radial for months with a nail in it. But a tube will go "bang."

 

Tubed tires cannot be repaired on the fly either.
I use a stop and go tire plugger to patch tires. This can be done on the vehicle and it's good enough to be permenant.
Check them out if you get a chance. They can be used on auto, motorcycle or 4 wheeler tires. They work great!!!

 

I think the valve-stem hole would leak.

 

Wow... you folks have given me a lot to digest as I prepare to make a tire purchase. It seems that tubeless makes most sense, as long as my 50-year old CJ5 wheel rims hold a seal. I'll have to wait to get opinion of the tire installer.

However, one aspect not covered in this discussion is sidewall strength, tube vs tubeless. I am particularly concerned about this because two weeks ago I experienced a massive front tire shredding while crossing a narrow bridge. Traveling at city speed across a dangerous two-lane bridge, I was suddenly 'thrown' head first into the bridge rail, airbags blown, opposite-coming car creaming by back end, and my beloved 1994 Mazda MX-6, which I pampered for 22 yrs, was lost (I was not injured beyond airbag face burn). I share the photo with you of my tubeless tire (15K miles) that appears to have blown up, or was first punctured in the sidewall by an object, causing instant deflation.

So, I want to install on my jeep the tires with sidewalls most resistant to sidewall puncture. Clearly a tubeless can shatter (see photo). Would a tube inside the radial have offered better resistance to what seems like a roadway puncture (and hopefully not a bullet strike; I could put my finger into that sidewall hole)?

I suppose, however, that there are no 'perfect' tires for all situations....and we do the best we can with our tire decisions -- Ron

 

IMO, if you have the option to run tubeless, the benefits far outweigh the (any?) drawbacks.

A tube setup traps moisture, gets horrible flat spots, is hard(er)to repair, is harder to balance...

I wouldn't let one questionable incident scare you too much. That tire could have been faulty or damaged. That type of blowout is common when radials are rotated from left to right, rather than front to back. The bands tend to get bunched up, leaving un-reinforced areas in the sidewall. Nothing holding the air in but the thin layer of rubber. First big impact, and Bang. If you're lucky, you can spot a bubble or blister in your sidewall before it happens.

Glad to hear you're ok.

 

Thanks for that good information, ITLKSEZ. Also, only one front-to-rear rotation for that tire set. I didn't know, however, that blisters can form and that you can possibly spot before a burst occurs. I'll be checking regularly all my tires from here on....

 

I was actually going to raise the sidewall issue, but bias-ply wasn't part of the original query.

Radial sidewalls are much more vulnerable than old-fashioned bias-plys. Even a sharp stick can ruin a radial - permanently.

I'd think this would be more of an issue among off-roaders.

Bias tires also stand taller.

 

I'd just assumed tube-type tires were synonymous with bias ply tires.

Radials don't play nice with tubes, even with "radial" tubes. There's just too much flex (which creates too much friction and heat) to be taken seriously for anything but a quick fix of a damaged radial.

I personally haven't had any issues with sidewall durability in modern off-road radials in the last 15 years. The later generation Goodyears and BFGs have had massive improvements. I raced several seasons in "the toughest 7 mile obstacle course" (Line Mt.) with 33x12.5x15 Goodyear MTs I bought in '04, and they took a SERIOUS beating and never had a flat.

YMMV, just my $.02