Distributor

Okay, so I have been troubleshooting a no spark problem on my 1967 cj5 F134. I have replaced the ignition coil and had to put an in line ballast resistor in because the coil did not have an internal resistor. I have power going into the distributor by testing for spark on main coil wire. I have no spark coming out of the distributor. I installed new cap, cleaned rotor contacts. Still no spark coming out. My thought is the points are bad, or the condensor. Is there any conversion to remove the points system, or would you guys not recommend that?
I'm not very familiar with the points type ignition system

 

Search Pertronix. Need to know the model number on your distributor. To me, points are a total waste of time if there is a good option without them. Others love to spend time cleaning and setting them.

 

I have no idea on the model number of the distributor, the one that it in it looks like the original one, no tag or numbers on it that I can see..

 

Some people "love to spend time" on old jeeps even though there are modern alternatives.

Original OEM F-head did not have a ballast resistor, if you have the correct coil.

If you suspect the points or condensor you can replace them for about $20 and fifteen minutes.

Or just try cleaning the points first with some very fine grit sandpaper followed by a polishing swipe with a business card or such

 

I thought I had purchased the correct coil, but apparently not. Darn Rock Auto. It says on the side of the coil that I had to have an external resistor.

Now as far as the points, I do not plan on this being a daily driver, maybe a weekend vehicle or once a week type thing so I think I may stay with points. Reading more about them, they aren't as complicated as I thought, just some finesse to them. I think I will go ahead and just replace the points and condensor and keep it that way. How do I know if I am ordering the right part though? And what gap does the points need to have?

 

Point gap is .020" You will find a factory service manual extremely useful.

Use the distributor number to order, should be a data plate on the outside of it (you may need a mirror.) Or take the old set with you to compare.

 

okay, thank you for your help.

In your opinion, do you think I should keep it points? It probably will not be driven during the winter, which where I am at could be as short as 2 months or as long as 5...

 

As Daryl points out, there are different schools of thought, and it is debated on this forum from time to time. It's a matter of personal preference.

Personally, I am a traditionalist. I feel maintaining points is an easy and worthwhile skill to learn - and in keeping with the whole concept of owning vintage vehicles.

At most, checking or replacing them once a year gives maximum reliability and takes only minutes. Points are diagnosable and "fixable" on the trail in ways that electronics are not. Electronics work until they don't, but failure can be sudden, or erratic and tough to diagnose. Jeeps are not high performance engines and do not have a lot to gain performance wise.

More techie types feel they get easier and less maintenance, and guaranteed performance from electronic ignition.

Some of us enjoy preserving early jeeps, others enjoy modifying them. Your choice.

 

I also hate to say it, but cost does come into equation at this point in time. I think I will get new points and condensor and get her up and running again before I go and spend the money on electronic ignition. I'll look and see if I can find a number on the distributor. Is this something that oreillys should stock?

 

ShBone -- O'reilly's may have the points, but if you use one of the 'standard' early-jeep vendors -- such as, Walcks, KaiserWillys, or Vintagejeepparts, they will have listed and pictured on their websites the exact points you need for your CJ5. Of course you'll have to wait 2 to 3 days for the delivery and pay $10 or so for postage, but at least you'll have the proper fit. (there's probably a few other items you need to order for your jeep, so you can group several items together for one postage payment)

If you have not worked with installing and setting points before, here's some thoughts. Ideally it is a 15-minute job, but there is some detail to the job that can make it longer. One is that while you have your old points still in the distributor, you'll need to nudge the engine so that the highest part of the distributor cam is pushing against the tab on the point-set. Then there's the fiddling with the two screws associated with the points, each one tiny: one you remove, the other you only loosen (the gap-adjusting screw). There's other details, too, like getting the wires firmly re-connected, which you know about if you've changed the condensor, and finding the little screws if you drop any . And then getting that 'perfect' 0.20" gap. All that said, this job has sometimes taken me an hour, much of that time lost to having fat fingers and to no longer having optimum eyesight. The job is not hard, but there is some detail that requires meticulous work. Finally, when you pull out your existing points and see that the point surfaces are fried, you'll then be encouraged about points replacement solving your spark problem. -- Ron

 

I checked all over the distributor but could not find a brand tag or anything. The only identifying marks I could find is on the lower back side towards the motor that has I A T and something that looks like a triangle with a circle in the top of it..

 

Looks like a very standard f-head unit, should be no problem getting parts.

Might be an IAT 4405 (which was listed for station wagon in my book.) IAY 4401 or IAY 4012 is another possibility, or IAD 4008-AT.


Hard to see in the picture, but it almost looks like the rubbing heel of the point arm is worn off. Judging by all the dust and rust in there, maybe the cam lobes got rusty and ate it up?
Make sure you lube the lobes when you install the new points. There is a special grease for that.

 

I went to oreillys and bought the points set that matched up with the one that is in it. I wasn't sure on the condensor, they had 3 different ones. Masterpro, bwd, and a bwd heavy duty... not sure what the difference is between them, so I figured I'd wait and purchase that after doing some more research

 

Replaced points, set timing as best as I could with a multimeter, went to try and start her, and nothing... not even a sputter. Check and recheck everything, spark- yes, points-yes,timing- yes... still couldn't get her to start.

After an hour or two of going over everything that I had checked and done, for some reason it popped into my head, for ****s and grins, why don't I try removing the 12 volt resistor that I had put on that everyone said didn't come stock. So that's what I did, and bam, she fired the first time I turned her over and ran like a champ.

Now my question to all of you is, why would the ignition coil say I needed a 12 volt resistor installed, when it doesn't work with it installed? I would like to know if anyone can enlighten me on what's going on here because I want the jeep to run, but if the coil says it's needed then I don't want to run it without the resistor, unless it's truly not needed? Any thoughts?

 

Option A)
Maybe you have a defective resistor? Or poor connections in the switch circuit feeding the coil? Did you have any voltage at the points before removing the resistor???

Option B)
Removing the resistance will give a hotter spark, but is hard on the points.

In many vehicles of the period, the ignition key-switch in fact bypasses the resistor during cranking. That compensates for the voltage drop resulting from the huge demand made by the starter. Stock F-head jeeps did not use that option, they just used a lower voltage coil with an internal resistor.

Try leaving the resistor in the circuit, but use a jumper cable to bypass it during cranking. After the engine starts, see if it will run with the bypass removed.

If so... maybe your starting sytem (starter, battery, cables, clamps, ground connections) is in poor condition and drawing excessive current. That doesn't leave enough voltage for the ignition coil during cranking.

Note... Running a "external resistance" coil full-time without a resistor will rapidly burn the points.

 

I think what I may do, since I only spent like 7 dollars on the coil is just remove it and put in the one that the jeep calls for from the factory. It may cost me extra money, but in the long term I would rather do that than have the wrong stuff. Then at least I will have an extra coil sitting around just incase.