Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Dropped an email to TDK asking both about full custom frames, as well as some details about their shackle reversal products....they do differentiate between 55-71 and 72-75 frames - the details get finalized when putting together the order details. Also, they only focus their SR kits towards either later CJ or YJ springs - nothing for the early 1.75" springs. FWIW - here is their timely and complete response - I don't completely understand the 2nd paragraph about why you cannnot use the early springs for SR, but you can with the later CJ/YJ springs? Anyway, I don't see using their SR parts individually on my current frame, but if one was to ever go full frame replacement, integrating their SR set-up with later springs would be pretty sweet.

Good Afternoon

We do indeed list CJ5 frames from 1955-1975, and you are correct, the frames are different after 71. We group them all together for ease of products on the website but our CJ5 frames in those years are going to be specific to the exact year of a customers frame if that makes sense. That is part of the reason why it is a call to order product, there is a lot more information that needs to be obtained when order a frame of that vintage unlike say, a 1982 CJ7 frame. We do make two different frames for 1955-1971 and 1972-1975.

We also sell SR products but only for 1976-1986 CJ Springs and YJ Springs unfortunately. There is no way to make SR work for the older CJ springs, basically they would hang to far down on the frame to make them work which would case geometry issues with your suspension which would make the SR useless if it was doable. SR would place the spring eye about 4" below the frame.

Like the above statement, we only do SR for newer CJ springs and YJ Springs. As for your spacer question, that is something we would not know about and would not recommend either.

For the rear mount on the front leaf spring we use YJ shackles and bushings and the included sleeve gets welded into the frame. Our shackles are not fixed if that makes sense, so if you were to use a newer CJ spring the shackles would still work without a spacer between the shackle and the spring. We use a YJ bushing and sleeve because they are bigger than a CJ bushing and allow the use of a bigger bolt for more strength. We would also not recommend that you cut them down to fit your factory springs. Basically with all this being said, if you are wanting to use our products you will either have to go to a 76-86 CJ spring or YJ springs, which would be recommended. The use of newer CJ springs or YJ springs is going to improve the ride of your Jeep, especially when it is pair with shackle reversal.

We don't necessarily have a showroom, we do have an office that has some write ups of our work as a whole, but the majority of our facilities is shop space and equipment. Although there is typically a frame either completed or about completed pretty much every day of the week as we do ship any where from 5-7 out every week. You are more than welcome to stop by if you are in the area and we can show you our frames, but there is no saying if there will be a CJ5 frame on the floor if or when you come. Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks

 

that is good if you are TIG welding right?

thanks - and yes I do have a trip coming up in a month or so, but I think it should all be doable as long as I focus on just repairing the existing set-up with no new mods. If I tried to go SR, things would probably get too complicated and time rushed. If I had front frame spring hangers ready to go for SR, then it might be doable, but doesn't seem like they are readily available - albeit I haven't really check with military jeep suppliers as that would be more common for m38a1 jeeps. Of course, you are always welcome to stop by and chuckle at my attempts to fix things - I am a very slow worker, but there is beer available.

 

that is what I would guess as well....but I think they mis-understood my question as I was asking about setting up an SR on MY existing OEM frame (not their frame)....but in any case, none of the spring hangers they make are for skinny springs, so it won't matter. I asked about using a bushing or spacer between the spring eye side of the hanger - kind of like the CPT kit suggests - but its probably not a great idea (and TDK certainly doesn't like the idea). The shackle end is less concerning because you can get offset shackles to work around differences between springs and frame mount from places like rough stuff.....

 

I was reminded from looking at Stakebed's pictures that the earliest cj5s and m38a1s that had the SR probably also used threaded C-shackles, and not the later bushing style mounts.....just because I've got some time tonight, I'll search Debellas and Midwest etc and see what they have with regard to the the front spring hangers - I am still grinding out and welding cracks and can also be distracted with getting the shock mount repair down as well....so I've got a bit of time before I am down to welding the original style spring hangers back on.

 

Here is another SR option....looks like its set-up for OEM frame and spring width...click on shackle reversal in the menu options:
https://www.woodys4x4.com/suspension.htm#Shackle_Top

In case it helps anyone looking for more info...dug these out of forums threads past from Rich and kenb

 

Taking a break from thinking about SR project, and back to fixing the frame.....I ground out and welded up a frame crack as best I could. Now I want to fishplate over it.....here is the basic idea:


the blue line is location of the original crack. The poorly drawn black line would be the fishplates - recognize they are very roughly drawn with my mouse on the computer. I was thinking doing both one on the side (most important) and also one on the bottom flange where the crack was at the back edge of the spring hanger. That lower one would need to extend not just over the crack, but all the way past the opposite end of the hanger so everything can mount flush.....So a couple questions:
1) is that lower flange plate needed under the hanger - I guess I think so, especially since I don't think I can box the frame above the hanger....well I could box the passenger side but not the driver side due to the ross box etc...I thought plating it would be a reasonable alternative.
2) Since these two plates will share a section of edge along the corner radius of the frame channel - is there any reason to make them a single plate from some angle iron (or bend some up myself - its only 1/8" plate) instead of trying to lay two beads adjacent to one another along that same section of frame edge?

 

Well, for better or worse, making progress....finished grinding out the cracks, cleaning up the PO repair and then welded them up....


then cut two fishplates for the bottom flange to go between the frame and the spring hanger:


welded them in....not good in the big picture, but about as good as I could hope to do myself as a total hack repair...I welded the full perimeter and did 4 'plug' welds...
passenger side:


driver side:


next up fishplates for the side of the frame....I didn't have the right 1/8" scrap to finish those yet, and then weld the spring hangers back on...

 

thanks - forgot about that option.....always good to see more options. From their directions it seems they mount the shackle in the old spring hanger at the rear of the front leaf spring - as opposed to going through the frame. I would think that means the 'orientation' of the spring is a bit 'asymmetrical' - not sure if I am saying that right, but trying to say the front end of the spring will be mounted significantly higher than the rear - unless the front spring hangers are very long and hang way down? Guess it would take care of the caster without needing any shims....

Does it seem quality? Looks like the one in the pic has kissed a rock up front with the cross-bar. Wonder if that cross-bar would work with the rectangular tubing I have welded in between the framer rails....I assume its job is to help bring some lateral reinforcement for the spring hangers that usually have to hang down below the frame a bit further than the shackle hanger. Probably cheaper to just buy individual brackets than the kit, but I am not against 'kits' if they save hassle finding certain parts and pieces. I have warrior shackles currently - wondering which length they include with the 'kit'....

 

too bad they don't make any for short ecj5 fenders (at least I don't think they do)....