Picked up this 1960 Willys CJ-5 - lots of questions!

Alrighty - so last week my Dad rings me up and says he wants me to check out a car for him around the corner from where I live.

I go check it out, compression was around 95 on all cylinders (hurricane 4) but it was still cold and hadn't run more than 10 minutes. nothing too weird in the spark plugs. A little rich.

Spark plugs were out of order, fixed that and decided it was worth the asking price (2k) and drove it home, trip was about 8 miles.

Still ran great when I got home, no weird noises, so

Now that its here though, I have to do some work to it so it'll be ready in mid-May when my Dad comes to pick it up - he's planning to drive it home from here (NM) to where he lives near Palm Springs in CA.

First, some glamour shots before I get to the meat n potatoes.









and a quick shot of the engine running:

[video=youtube_share;lm5pz9_PR4U]http://youtu.be/lm5pz9_PR4U[/video]

so question time:

I think overall I did good for the price -- the rust is minimal and restricted to flat areas of sheet metal I can easily patch. As far as oil leaks go, I haven't found any major ones except maybe the rear main seal is leaking, I found a sizeable puddle forming after I shut it down when I first brought it home, seemed to be coming from a hole in the bell-housing where it meets the transmission but it's hard to tell exactly. definitely engine oil though.

first things - I'm not sure the distributor thats in there is right, or at least not postioned right. The plugs seem to be 180 off where they should be. My plan is to put the engine at TDC and see where the dist. lies-- anyone know what the "right" distributor part number is so I can check it against what I find on the body of the distributor thats in there?

I think the compression was a little on the low side, but again it was still pretty cold, but I want to check the valves anyway. Are there any tips or tricks I should know about before I pop the valve cover off?

I didn't feel any weird suspension issues when I drove it, but that said I'm used to driving things a lot more refined than this so it may just be that I can't tell the difference between good stiff and bad stiff. My major concern at this point is the steering -- I drove it home without any accidents but I had one scary moment where the wheel hit a rut and suddenly the wheel wanted to wrench over and take me into a ditch. On center, it feels like the wheel is "looser" or easier to turn to the right, while it "catches" faster when I turn to the left. Is it just adjusted badly or should I be planning on a steering box adjustment/and or rebuild?

I have more but thats probably good for a first post...

thanks in advance all! quick note about me, first time working on a jeep but I'm pretty familiar around cars and I'm an Aerospace Engineering student graduating in 2 months so don't afraid to get technical.

 

Congratulations! Looks like it was a great deal!

 

Looks good!

Palm Springs is a long way from New Mexico at 45 mph... I would flat tow it, or rent a dolly.

There are a lot of moving parts in the steering. Search for "Ross steering" in old posts here. Look at the bell crank on the front crossmember under the radiator first, then proceed from there toward the wheels and back to the steering gear at the bottom of the column. Common service items are the drag link, tie rod ends, kingpin bearings, knuckle seals, among others.

Looks pretty clean and complete; also looks like it was not owned by an enthusiast. Generally these Jeeps need the front knuckles gone through, and steering parts (as you discovered).

I suggest you get the factory service manual, a reprint. That's your best single source for basic information about service and repair. http://thejeep.com/shop/TECH+MANUAL...%252F6+L%2526F+HEAD++JEEP+SERVICE+MANUAL.html (just an example - available from all the Jeep parts retailers).

 

" Are there any tips or tricks I should know about before I pop the valve cover off?"

Yes, it's called an "F-head" because the exhaust valves are in the block. Only the intakes are under the upper cover. Compression is a little low, but Jeeps aren't fussy that way. Maybe the rings need to loosen up?

Steering sounds typical. Listen to Timger's advice. And search "death wobble" on this site.

Looks like a complete and solid jeep, near original - all to the good! Hope you keep it that way.

 

Whoa. how does that work then? if you burn an exhaust valve you have to rebuild the whole thing? I've heard these engines are fairly reliable so I won't sweat it but seems like a weird design.

I tried searching in this forum and in the general site for "ross steering" and it returned zero matches... perhaps I'm not doing it right? I'll try "death wobble" next!

Its pretty original, my dad and I tend to lean towards the purist side of things so we probably won't change much. I know for sure I want to re-do some bad rust repair in the bed area and under the seats. Theres a hole that needs patching on the topside of the gas tank, the gauge is completely useless, and I want to change all the fluids and get it clean so I can see what I have to work with a little better.

timgr- is 45mph really the top speed for these jeeps? here is a picture of the passenger side front joint- its dirty but I figure if anyone can spot anything "wrong" right off the bat... I don't know that towing or dollying it back is in the cards but if he's got a bikini top I don't think he'd mind taking it slowly all the way back... but 45 is way below the freeway limit!!



heres a shot of the worst of the rust, underside of the bed:



heres the top side of the bed, looks like someone laid a sheet of metal over the old bed, and then riveted/ spot welded around the edges. I actually don't think its too bad under there but I'll have to get the sheet off to see better.

its got a few other spots here and there, none larger than a quarter or half dollar. Nothing I can't fix with the ole mig.

heres the underside of the block, you can see at the bellhousing where theres a considerable build up of grime where I discovered the oil leak, that made me think rear main seal.



the gas tank hole- topside near the fill neck


decent seats.

 

If it was me I wouldn't drive it back, I wouldn't flat tow or dolly it back, I'd only throw it on a trailer and haul it back. There are so many things that could be wrong with the jeep or be marginal that it most likely wouldn't make it.

If the max speed is 45 mph, then actually going 45 mph for hours on end would be pushing the envelope of the entire drive train to near limit -- something is bound to break.

Flat tow or dolly would still be turning much of the drive train at ~60 -70 mph and that will tax anything that is worn or poorly lubricated.

 

45 mph is not so much maximum, as it is safe and reliable - a happy speed for an early CJ5, even although the ultimate limit is higher, maybe 55 to 60. If you are not used to the idea of driving an antique vehicle, on a modern road there is a real temptation to push too hard with the risk of blowing something up.

Personally I wouldn't cruise a tired f-head long distances at any higher speed than 45mph, especially with unknown mechanicals. I agree with kamel.

I hope you enjoy it for a long time. I gotta say, living here in salt country, it seems incredibly "clean." Jealous!

 

we're used to aircooled VW's so we know a thing or two about antique cars and driving slowly. I've driven cars in far worse shape than this twice as far without issues.

that said, if the cruising speed is around 50-55 that's more acceptable. The whole point of me picking it up two months BEFORE the drive is to take care of the "unknown mechanicals" and make sure everything is greased and lubed for the trip. body work and that stuff can come later.

 

If you have an overdrive, 50 t0 55 is a bit more realistic.

You said you have to mid May before you take it on it's 'long drive'.
Fix the steering issues, take it on some short drives to find any other problems, then decide on how far you want to drive it at 45 to 50 mph.

Or consider the drive to be a vacation trip, sit back and enjoy the scenery.

 

"...if the cruising speed is around 50-55 that's more acceptable."
I absolutely would *not* consider 55 to be a cruising speed - that is flat out maximum. IMHO, I would consider it to be potentially destructive to a well used F-head, over a distance.

"I've driven cars in far worse shape..."
Remember an early Jeep is very much *not* a "car" - it is an offroad vehicle that was designed for the battlefield, not interstate highways. It was meant to perform it's best, and is unbeatable, at walking speeds.

This is what I meant to convey about "pushing too hard..."

 

X2, even in a V6 Jeep, I don't think a nearly stock 5 is a good idea on the highway for any length of time driving, let alone that distance.

 

Ross steering: https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...75,d.dmQ&fp=c1860044171a634f&biw=1248&bih=997

1,610 results.

Read Dr. Vern's site: http://vernco.com/

Novak: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/steering_knuckle_repair.htm

CJ-3B page - mostly overlaps with the F134 CJ-5: http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Tech.html

The Kaiser/Willys "Hurricane" 4-cylinder is a very old design, dating back to the 1930s. The F-head was an improvement from the 134 cid L-head "Go Devil" engine used in WWII Jeeps. The L134 has both valves in the block.

These engines have a very, very long stroke. This means that the torque peaks at a low RPM, giving them strong acceleration at low speeds. They feel peppy at low speeds. As I'm sure you know, HP ~ RPM * torque, and power is what you need to overcome wind resistance at speed. With such a long stroke, the piston velocity is very high at a given RPM, so rod bearing forces are high. Pushing one of these engines to high speeds is both dangerous to the longevity of the engine, and pointless, because power production is falling off. As I'm sure you know, wind resistance goes like the square of velocity, and these cars have the aerodynamics of a barn (unlike the very slippery VW).

Typically the axle ratio is 5.38:1. You can fit an aftermarket planetary overdrive, which reduces the engine RPM by 25%. These overdrives are not cheap, at ca $800 for the whole setup. http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/?page_id=254 Owners (Jim, jpflat2a) have reported that you can drive at low highway speeds for long distances with an overdrive, if the engine is in good condition. In any case, you are running right at the power/RPM limit for the engine.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Tech/EngineDyno.html

Classic Enterprises offers high-quality replacement panels for the body. http://www.classicent.com/jeep.php Fortunately, Jeep body panels are mostly flat panels and simple curves, so you may be able to patch what you have using plain flat 18 ga steel... depending on your skill level.

Jeeps have a lot of moving parts - along with that comes a lot of maintenance and service, and lots of opportunities for neglect by previous owners (very common). Jeeps have different issues from passenger cars. There are a lot of resources out there - again, I recommend getting the factory manual and reading it cover to cover. I'm sure you understand - success will depend largely on how well you do your homework.

 

Also, I would guess that your steering knuckles are not leaking because they are dry. With that much caked-on dirt and oil... likely all the oil is on the outside of the knuckle now. Lots of discussion about knuckle seals and lubrication in old posts.

Maybe they're ok. The Jeep looks like it was cared for, but in a utilitarian way, not by an enthusiast.

 

It would be fun ... is there an app that finds routes on the back roads? Hmm... I wonder if AAA can help you with this? They have a travel agency that will make a TripTic for your trip.

 

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Actually, IIRC, the Willys engine made its debut in the 1926 Whippet so one must assume the basic design is mid 20's.

As to a long trip in a stock Willys, I would have no problems doing that and have done that on a number of occasions-but none in an untested, unknown Jeep. 95 psi compression probably means a lot of blow-by if you are going to work it hard and is VERY likely the reason for the rear main seal problem. You may be putting a lot of both oil and plugs in it to make that trip.

Absolutely go through the entire steering. IMO, most of the slop is usually needle bearings in the bell crank, but the Ross box is rather well known for contributing to that as are worn TRE's and king pin bearings.

 

I stand corrected!

Looking at the route, you could take US 60 to Quartzite and then cross the Colorado at Parker, and go west to Palm Springs on US 62. The main downside to this route, I'd think, is its remoteness - bring along your camping gear, parts, tools and supplies. Also, the NM and AZ parts looks mountainous... this may try your patience. But it's only 750-800 miles, which you could divide into however many days you need. At an average speed of 35 mph, if you drive 6 hours a day, that's roughly 200 miles a day and 4 days to make the trip.

 

".. take the back roads, enjoy the ride.." I do like that idea, Boyink. IF you could find back roads, and had a week to do it, and were young and foolish. An adventure indeed... But when I was young I blew the rod bearings out of an F-head in just one hour of Interstate driving. It is HARD to go slow enough.

After WWII my dad "liberated" a Jeep due to be dumped in the ocean off Japan. He got it back to the US, then drove it from San Francisco to Chicago before an MP caught him and they took it away.

But he said that drive nearly killed him. (And he never forgave them for taking 'his' jeep.)