Front Axle Advice Needed

I've been saving up for quite a few years to have enough to get a new front end for the '74 CJ-6 I've got. The Jeep is currently apart being rebuilt...in fact it's been stalled for about a year. This year I am hoping to resurrect the build and get it moving.

The current front end is the stock Dana 30. The factory 304 has been replaced with a mildly built Howell TBI'd 360....~300 horse, ~360 tq. Replacing the front end has always been high on my list of wants for several reasons...strength, width, disc brakes, etc. I could always swap discs onto my current D30, swap in alloy axles, etc....but I feel that would be spending bad money before spending good money. Here is my plan, but am looking for advice on specs:

1) Sam's Off-Road Dana 44 w/alloy axles, disc brakes and Warn hubs. Am choosing Sam's because both Currie and Dynatrac suggested I go to them as their product was more in my price range.

2) Am running 33s, but may run 35s at some point....therefore I am leaning toward 4.56 gears, but would consider 4.10s. Am running the Dana 20 TC, and a swapped in T-18 4-speed. I realize that I will have to regear the rear to match the new front.

3) Width - I want wider than stock, but don't want full size truck width. Was leaning toward factory CJ wide track width. Will this be an issue? Will it require any specialized parts? I am assuming the steering linkages would be wide track CJ parts?

4) Width part 2 - My rear end is the factory D44. I am currently running Spidertrax 1.25" wheel spacers on both ends, but would not run them on the new front end. The rear end is already narrower than the front. Now it will be even more narrow. Will this cause any handling quirks? Although not as important, will it look ridiculous?

5) Future Rear end upgrade - In the future I plan on swapping in a Currie 9" or Rock Jock. At that time, would I go with CJ wide track width, or would I go with a width to match the front? Is their an engineering reason as to why the rear end is narrower from the factory than the front?

6) Locker? Sam's mentions the Detroit and ARB on their web site. I don't do hard core wheeling, but I want the Jeep to be more capable than I need, and do want to slightly overbuild, as I feel that should minimize trail repairs, and more importantly, give me peace of mind. The ARB would be great, but as a cost savings, should I look into the Tru trac? Will this help keep me moving on the trail while minimizing the chance at carnage?

7) Axle location - I've got the M.O.R.E. shackle reversal on it, but it was for a later model CJ, but I used it because I'm running 2.5" wide RE springs. So...the kit was set up to move the axle forward 1", which did not happen on the intermediate frame. So we moved the axle forward via the spring perches. So...with the D44 being a physically larger axle, are there any things I need to take into consideration? The spring perches or spring pin locators should still be able to accomplish the same thing, correct?

8 ) Any other thoughts? Steering mods such as a tie rod flip, etc? Brake master cyl/booster to accommodate the disc brakes? Etc.... I've been saving for years, and want to do it right!

Thanks for any thoughts or insight!

 

Hum look over some scout axle, you keep the same bolt patern and they are 5 inch wilder than narrow axle. both are dana 44 so lot's of piece interchange between them. Also the brake galiper is bigger than the dana 30 one so you gain lot of power. The scout axle widn't is perfect to for a coil spring conversion. I did it and there is enought space for the coil. Also having the coil off the frame bring you more stability on the road and on the trail.

if you want to swap a dana 44 and keep wheel patern and widnt you can cut off 5 inch on the longer tube of a front scout dana 44 and use a early broncos axle.

 

A lot of unneeded work for some of the comments you've made.

But if you must, and if it were me, stuff a locker and some upgraded axle shafts in the D30 and call it a day.
Use the factory 11" brakes, rebuilding if needed.

Bank the money saved, or use it for good purpose, not a mall crawler.

 

Fair statement....and very understandable. Let me provide some more information, to perhaps explain why I would like the D44....maybe I'm still completely off base.

I stand by my statement in that I'm not going to do any hardcore off-roading....but the mall is the last place it will be.

I plan to use this to take on trail runs, anywhere from here in Northern NM, to those in Moab. More importantly, I plan on using it for hunting, where failure is absolutely not an option. I don't want to be miles away from civilization and have the front axle going out. I realize there are many factors in keeping the front axle alive. I will be pushing more horsepower than stock, and the front axle has already gone through two outers on one side, one on the other.....and two hubs. I want a rig that I don't have to take spares of all types....just the basics. I need room for hunting gear, hunters, hopefully game from a successful hunt, etc. I am doing all that I can to learn about the rig, its maintenance requirements, and learning how to repair it. That being said.....I am definitely no one of those guys who can swap out a front out axle shaft in the time it takes someone to take a leak. My mechanical skills are not that strong, although I doing everything I can, as I mentioned, to learn to fend for myself. I am not normally hard on my vehicles, but I would like to enjoy the 360 without fear of the front end going everytime I push the gas (I know.....I'm not giving the D30 it's due respect). I am looking for performance as well as peace of mind. If it were only going to the mall, the D30 would stay, and it would have been back on the road long ago. I'm trying to build it once, and am trying to avoid tempting fate. I know I sound paranoid regarding the D30, but I fee that I would be tempting fate running 35's, a strong engine, and a locker.....

I realize the expense is high.....probably too high for what you get in return, and Sam's is at the low end of the "crate" axle crowd. I have gone to my local shop, and have been told that by the time it's all said and done, a rebuilt axle from the junkyard would likely cost as much with today's labor rates, and I don't have the ability to cut down and rebuild an axle myself. Believe me, if I did...I would go that route.

 

If you're gonna use 35s, you could be pushing it if you thrash it hard, especially if you've broken parts already.

 

Well, then stick to your plan, and the expense of it, and realize there are no guarantees when it comes to anything mechanical. Preventative maintenance, a wrench on a few bolts here and there before the trip, a quick visual inspection, and maybe you'll be good to go.
Without offending you further, I would suggest an alternate driving style to prevent a breakdown before it occurs.

 

No offense taken whatsoever! On the contrary, I am very appreciative of any and all advice and comments. My apologies if I came across snippy in my response, as that was not my intention. I was responding while at work, and was replying a piece at a time, so my thoughts were scattered. Looking back at my post, it did came across a little snarky....my apologies!

I am the second owner of this Jeep, and I have not personally busted the axle parts. The original owner was giving me a breakdown of the Jeep's life when we were working the deal. I tend not to be too hard on my vehicles, but I am paranoid (obviously) and my mechanical skills are less than I would prefer, especially in the back country where improvising and a strong skillset can be critical. I do want to overbuild for my needs, but don't want D60s, etc, etc, etc. I have given thought to beefing up the D30, but when the math is done, I am halfway, if not more to the beefed up D44. One of my friends at work did the axle upgrades to his D30 and was a hair over $2k at the end of the day. So....I have to as myself if the extra $1,500 dollars is worth it for the beefed up D44? I honestly don't know, and I fully realize that I am pre-empting events that may never occur with the D30. The peace of mind may be enough, but I defer to Jeepers with much more experience than I have, so please.....keep the comments coming!

 

Axles are either strong or cheap, never both. You can keep costs down somewhat by building a D30. Or you can look for a D30 that is already built that someone is upgrading to a bigger axle.

Or you can get a D44 or a Chevy 10 bolt. But both of them either need to be narrowed or the springs need to be outboarded. To swap a wider axle, and to do it right, costs a bit of money. You need to address steering, suspension, drive-line, brakes, etc.

Next up is a D60. A stock D60 will be very hard to break, is a bit more expensive than a D44 but the install costs will be similar.

bottom line is if you want stronger, it will cost money. There is no cheap way to do it that I know of.

Were it me, I'd run the D30, knowing it's limitations and being careful. I'd look for a built D30 off of craigslist someone is upgrading from. If you want a bit wider stance, ie wider axles, than I'd look for a scout set and outboard the springs. If you wanted plenty big axles, look for a set and either pay to have them cut down to fit or do all the fabrication needed to fit them under the jeep.

I've been where you are and decided on going with a heavy duty D44/D60 set out of a 70's Jeep truck: CMT u joints, front locker, rear spool, 4.56 gears, 4 disc brakes, all new bearings withing the last 12 months. They came out of a Tennessee Jeep and are well built and I paid $800 for the set.

 

The best way to improve you're mechanical skills is to start to do some mechanical skills. When I first bought the jeep I was having no experience no tools and no skills ont repairing my machine. 3 years later with a lot of oil over my hand I know a lot more than before I bought the jeep.

Altought dana 60 don’t thing about that to much modification will be need and it’s to much overkill for the need you will have. If you want to upgrade two dana 44 is the best trick to do. Like I said before dana 44 from a scout is the best thing to do depending on what you want to do. Bigger inner axle, bigger gear, and you kept the same wheel patern so you don’t need new rim. Using a scout dana 44 leave you two option. First you keep them as full length and you outboard the spring perche. The second , you cut 5 inch out the long tube and you find yourself an inner axle shaft from a early broncos (shaft is exactly 5 inch smaller than the scout one). This way you will have a dana 44 that’s is having the same widn’t as you’re dana 30 without the need of having custom part. Using a dana 44 from a scout will cost you about 300-500$.

You can take a look over what I did on my front end. I needed to unweld the “ C “ that hold the knuckle to give some extra caster because I’am hi lifter. I did all the work using a grinder with a 5 inch grinding wheel.

http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?92331-Homemade-coil-spring-conversion

If you have question it will be a pleasure to help, I’ve been on the same situation as you

 

Great advice, thanks to everyone.....lots to think about! Regarding the Scout axles, that sounds like a good option. Question - I had heard that Scout axles had special considerations when swapping due to the cast angle, and may require the inner c's to be cut and re-welded. I could be mistaken however....

I would like to go wider, but not too much, which is why I was looking at CJ Wide track width....would this open up the options for off the shelf steering components?

 

Yeah you’re abusolutly right about the caster issu. Scout are oem at 0 degree and our jeep are designed for 6-7 degrees. I did it on my front dana 44 and it’s pretty easy I can help you out if you need. Also is ain’t a bad thing because you can turn the pumpking up, it will reduce the stress on the front driveshaft and give you a little extra clearance at the yoke. Swapping a full widtn scout axle is a little work, you need to outboard the front spring outside the frame, getting more stability on the suspension. Also galiper is way bigger on the dana 44, with 35 inch tire isn’t a bad thing. Widetrack axle is only about 3 inch wilder than narrow one. So maybe just some off-set rim will do the trick.

About with the full widnt scout axle i’m running on 35 12.5 15r and with 6 inch extension the tire are completly cover.

 

A CJ wide track front is still a D30, just like what you have, only a tad wider. No increase with strength over what you have now unless you upgrade it. This would be the best way to go in my limited opinion.

 

He's talking about a Dana 44 front custom built to Dana 30 CJ widetrack width.


Sent from my iPhone

 

Let me throw a couple of ideas into the mix.

How about '74-79 Wagoneer axles? They aren't much wider than CJ wide track, and you get D44s front and rear, with disk brakes. You have to move the pads for the rear axle, and you'll have to outboard the perches for the front axle. But the geometry is fine, and it's been done before... You'll almost certainly have to regear them, since they typically come with 3.31s or 3.54s. 4.10s were optional with the 258/T-18, but those cars are already scarce and desirable.

If you go much bigger than 33s, the radius of the tire will be larger than the radius of the rear wheel opening. You'll either have to lift a lot, or cut the body. 33s look good and work well, with minimal lift.

If you are worried about breaking the front axle, how about an automatic? Less impact load means you are less likely to break something. It's a different driving style, but equally valid to a low-geared manual. You'd need better brakes, but there's plenty of room for an automatic in a CJ-6. Can be done with junkyard parts two ways, either the TH400 and D20/BW13xx from several Jeep donors, or a TF999/D300 from a '80-on CJ-7. Brian did one of these conversions for a disabled vet back in 1975, with hand controls. Very straightforward.

 

The thing about wagonneer is the wheel patern not the same as Cj's axle. Typical lift with 35's inch tire bring a problem of front drive shaft angle especally if he's having a 3 speed transmission. Going automatic could solve the problem because he will need a longer front drieshaft. But also with a automatic transmission he may need to put another drive-shaft with a cv-joint in the rear.

For the front suspension, you could do a coil spring conversion. Ride will be smoother and you gain lot more stability on the road than with leaf spring. Going with a dana 44 either the scout or the wagonner, leave you enought space for the coil spring between tire and frame. I'm my idea, outboarding the front spring or goind throught a coil spring set-up is the same amount of job. I've done it on the front of my cj5 last spring and i found and easy way to do it so i can help you out.I got a detail project on the forum swapping a scout axle (cut de "c" and rewelded them for caster ,drive-shaft issu) and the coil spring suspension.

 

Just got back to this thread....whew, more good talking points. My head's starting to spin now....

I hesitate to make significant suspension modifications, as I have already had the frame gone through, and converted to 2.5" wide springs all the way around, and the springs are fresh....only a few hundred miles on them. They are Rubicon Express 4.5" XD springs, and the shackle reversal was done at the same time. I have thought about going to an automatic, but the T-18 that's in there now is the version with the 6.32:1 first gear, which helps offset the D20 2.03 low range. If I were to go to an automatic, I would lean toward a 700R4, which I believe there is an adapter for, to get the overdrive. The Jeep won't spend much time on the interstate, so high speeds won't be a regular thing, but there is a lot of state highway (speed limits of 60 or lower) between my home and my hunting grounds, so I have been putting off any sort of tranny swap, especially having the T-18. If I had the T-15, then I would be doing a tranny swap while the Jeep is disassembled.

I am not opposed at all to junkyard axles at all....I'm just concerned that after it's all said and done, with all the tweaking here and there, I could end up spending nearly as much money and much more time. I was hoping the Sam's axle would essentially bolt in, once the pinion angle was set, and the steering linkage was either procured or fabbed. With my desire to go a tad wider, I believe I may have knocked the "bolt in" aspect of the job out of the conversation.

 

If the front axle is built properly for your Jeep it will be just about a bolt in. Drag link and tie rod will need attention and possibly driveshaft length may need addressed. Other than that shouldn't be an issue. Personally I'd have one built to wide track specs to maximize turning angle, have a drag link and tie rod built to match, and bolt it in based upon what you say your mechanical skill level is.
I certainly understand the want of dependability. A 30 is a good front axle for a stock application and holds up for many folks, but also is understrength for many folks. As you've noted, by the time you upgrade the axle shafts to quality aftermarket units that's a long ways towards a narrowed 44 that would be a bolt in replacement.

 

The '68-ish to '73 Wagoneer rear axle is the same flanged D44 axle as used '74-'79 and it's 5 on 5.5". Then use a '74-'79 front axle with 5-lug Ford hubs. IIRC.

 

Totaly agree on that.

I'm not the kind of guy who spend money on small axle like the dana 30. Dana 44 are a good way, and narrowing an scout dana 44 keeping oem axle (need to use a bronco axle on longer side) is the cheapest way to go. Reseting the caster is pretty easy, i bring the jeep on a trailer at a aligment center, with the "c" un weld and i ask him to give me 6 degrees os caster....i got a .02 degree différence between the two side. The align center spot weld the " c" ans i finished the job home.

Using the dana 44 from a waggy ,the best combination for steering and wheel patern is to use flat top knukkle (for hi-steer)from Gm dana 44, and use the hub a of a ford dana 44.