MD Juan Tub Kit 1969 CJ5 4CLY (7/2016)

I wish you good luck; I am retirered too, but no patience to repair all as you do.
At the end you will find happiness.
spare tyre : I add the side mount system reinforced by oak parts inside, so it stay calm. There is no problem driving with and I can open easily my tailgate. I keep the retro look. But tyre on tailgate is good.
Problem is with big heavy tyres. Other subject.

Gauges : the gauges in the odometer are very fragile and the replacement by Omyx Ada are not to quality. I made holes for additional gauges with direct reading (water temp and oil pressure).
For the fuel it is not yet perfect agian I bought Omyx very low quality.
Hopefully you are retired so you can spend days to test and find the solution. If it works well on the first try cover all and drive.
You're lucky.

About roofing try to get a Meyer hard-top with doors and all hinges (most important) it is very heavy but if you have room to keep it it is very nice in winter, and a nice retro look.
The only problem is rust, don't buy if rusted, and pay is no rust.

 

I had noticed that car in the background - thought maybe this was a professional hotrod shop - Awesome!

 

I like your winter !

We live in the "rust belt", Pennsylvania. ...hard to prevent rust. But a hard top looks hard to beat. I agree, nice retro look!

 

Nothing professional about us. We're having way too much fun to be getting paid for this. Our deal is that Joe helps me with the Jeep, and then I help him with the Pontiac. But we do it all in his garage.

Then we take a vacation in Hawaii!

 

I mentioned earlier we're doing a US Navy tribute Jeep. Although I just bought a used 1971 (per the seller) AMC soft top (per it's tag) by Whitco (best guess), I don't prefer the convertible type "V" shape of the main support rods or its extremely simple lines. And I've seen a very military looking canvas top design on thecj2page.com (see below) which uses the original body welded bow pockets. So after we finish this MDJ tub project, we'll finish Joe's Pontiac... then I want to make my own bows and sew my own military/Navy type top... 2018?

Here is the civilian version:


And the cj2 military version (modernised with some mid body zippers):


And the cj5 Navy version (sides & doors not shown):


So, we'll see if the dream (and checkbook) stay alive.

I think this Navy version may have an error in the construction of the front bow tubes... I think they should have a dog-leg at the bottom.

 

"Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. Today was our first day back after a week off.

First we plugged (welded/ground smooth) eight holes in the two rear corners where I previously mis located the rear bow sockets (soft top vertical support tubes). They will be reattached later (bolted on) in the correct location.

I had intended to use the MDJ shipping frame to capture the mounting bolt locations, but too many of the holes on the old body had deteriorated too much to give us a precise center. So we decided to go a more direct route. Today, we'll do a temporary full body assembly to make sure we're getting the alignment we want.



We picked the tub up and detached it from the rotisserie (photos above), rolled the frame under it, and placed the MDJ tub tail end first on to the frame. After finding the center of the rear tub and the frame center at the bumper, the rear most tub mounting holes on the top of the rear bumper matched those in the MDJ tub. We only had to open up one hole about 1/32 (but our rear bumper had been bent in slightly when we got it, so our bumper repair may have been off a tad). We used a 3/16" - 1/4" rubber bushing between the bottom of the frame and the top of the rear bumper. We used the largest bolts which would fit in the four pre drilled holes so we ended up with very little relative movement between the frame and tub.

We then focused on the forward most frame-to-body mounting brackets. I had heard previously that the MDJ underbody support channels were generally located poorly and that they would not line up with the mounting brackets on the frame. But that's not what we found. The front MDJ support channels were dead nuts over the front original frame brackets. In fact they all were.









We centered the tub on the frame by measuring from the outside of the frame at the mounting bracket to the outside of the tub and then used the 1/2" hole in each frame mounting bracket to line up and drill holes through the body floor pan. We made the first hole, put a bolt through it, checked our center alignment, and then drilled the rest without removing our bolt. All dead nuts on center.

...Then we got our first MDJ tub disappointment (photos below). The body was resting on the top of the transfer case and also on top of the emergency/parking brake drum. It appears the center hump is almost an inch low above those two items. So, what to do...???





We had a handful of 1/4 +/- thick steel plates about 2.5" x 1.5". It took a stack of three of them between the frame and tub to clear the transfer case and brake drum. The flat rubber bushing gave us a bit more height. We didn't know if the extra inch +/- would create peddle clearance issues, so we installed the peddles next.

The peddles are in the lowest part of their floor pan holes, but we didn't have any peddle issues from the extra 1" of tub height. However, the MDJ support channel under the cowl gusset had an excess of flange sheet metal on the out board side where the clutch peddle has to travel. Joe removed it with a die grinder in about 2 minutes and we were back in business.



You may recall we had to move the cowl gusset previously to provide clearance for the new clutch peddle hole we drilled through the floor pan. We noticed the clutch peddle also rubbed on the side of the old gusset in my original tub, so we couldn't criticize MDJ too much on that one.

Ok, now the steering column. We fed it easily through the open floor... Three bolts and it was in... So far, no issues with the 1" tub lift, but I'm going on a diet so I can fit under the steering wheel now that the tub lift took an inch away... There wasn't all that much belly clearance to begin with!



The next thing we needed to check was the grill-to-frame attachment when tied to the higher tub via the front fenders. I'm using the new MDJ fenders that came with my tub kit. They are appropriate for 1969 (no side marker lights). My old fenders had some damage the PO had repaired acceptably with Bondo. But I don't trust that I could reproduce his work after stripping it off to check for rust (no rust in my old fenders).

Here is how she looked when I got her this past spring.



However, I am using my original grill. The 1969 MDJ tub kit was not to have included a new grill, but it had one(!). Unfortunately, the "bonus" grill they added was from a newer model cj5 than mine. My original grill was in truly excellent shape, with just a very minor bend in the sheet metal at the bottom... I may not even straighten it; we'll see if it shows.

Since we were placing MDJ fenders on the MDJ tub, no surprise, they bolted on very cleanly.



At first we attached the grill from the top bolt to the bottom bolt and it seemed the hole alignment was off... But the bottom grill bolt hole is slotted on the fender which suggests it should be first. So we took the grill back off and started bolting from the bottom up and sure enough, my old original grill bolt holes alligned perfectly with the new MDJ fender holes. Nice!





Next, the hood. We had a few interference points between the hood and the front left fender. It turned out that the hood's lateral forward underside channel end had not been trimmed back enough from the outer lower hood lip to allow the raised spine at the top of the fender to fit between the hood lip and the support channel. I cut back the support channel edge with a die grinder and it fit.



While both fenders fit cleanly with the tub, the hood back corner overhangs on one side a few 8ths inch at the cowl. We think we can just bend the hood in a bit, but we'll see. I'm not expecting a problem with it.



Next, the windshield frame. My old windshield frame has new glass and a functioning bottom mounted wiper mechanism... I wanted to use it. ...Joe said "no way"!! It is original and has seen a lot of years. We heard the original hood was destroyed when it flew off while the Jeep was being towed to Pittsburgh from Flordia... It evidently departed through the windshield. The windshield frame repair is fully functional, but obvious. So I gave in and we'll use the new MDJ windshield frame. Now I have to move the wiper mechanism... yikes!



At first we thought we'd have a problem with the windshield hinge attachment since the MDJ tub corners don't appear to be perfectly square where the hinge bolts on. But once again we reversed the bolt attachment order, and they snugged in rather nicely.



We struggled just a bit with the windshield lower gasket attachment and ran out of time.



Yes, that's Joe holding up the windshield frame. SO SERIOUS! He only looks like that since it was after 6:00 PM and he had not started making dinner yet! (He's retired... She isn't...)

Friday, we'll snug everything up and work on any final alignment issues.

It appears for now that we can live with the 1" tub lift. If you have any thoughts about that or any concerns or considerations, please let us know ASAP. Thanks in advance.

I did buy a side step for my wife... With the new springs, the 16" rims, and this extra 1" tub height, I might need a side step for me!

One more question for you experienced guys... I see advertized strips of rubber to place in the bolted joint between the fenders and the tub... Has anyone tried them? Do you think they necessary/worth it? They were not in my original 1969 CJ5 when I took it apart. I remember that my old VW had them (same era).

 

I was wondering, since early cj's used spacers between the tc support/cross member and frame effectively increasing the distance between body and tc, wouldn't that have been an easier fix to gain the clearance needed than the 1" body lift?

 

Looks like a jeep again.....would adding the body mounts have given you the clearance needed for the transfer case ?

 

your upper hinge looks like it's missing something

 

Yes that upper hinge must have broken when hit with the hood. Should be a bar welded to it that goes up into the tube of the windshield frame. Things are looking good - glad your hat channels lined up.

 

Can anyone supply us with a close up picture of what is missing on the upper hood hinge. If you could supply us with dementions , that would be great. Thanks.

 

Wow, good eye. Thanks for calling that to our attention; we had no idea.

Yikes!
'Lots of holes in that arm! Four of them! What the heck are they all for!?! Mounting it, sure, but 4x?



Found this on line (Crown product).

 

Do you mean this transmission mount on top of the support cross member?



If so, I'd be reluctant to take any rubber out of it to make it thinner since it isolates the vibration of the drive train from the frame.

Or, are you suggesting placing a thick shim between the frame bottom and the top of this support crossmember? That is certainly possible but would drop the back of the engine lower than the front... Thanks... we'll give it some thought. But it feels like it would effect the brake and clutch mechanisms... The main peddle shaft is captured between the frame and transmission... 'doesn't seem like a good idea to mess with that...

 

Yea! It's been a while but it does look like a Jeep again... but kind of a "stealth" Jeep... all black.

The standard stock oem body mount bushings are 1/4" thick (as best I can determine on line). They likely will compress in service and over time. To avoid a future frame/body collision, we need just under 3/4" additional separation...then the 1/4" rubber mounting bushing.

We will examine deforming the floor pan again when we take the body back off, but it wasn't obvious how we would accomplish that much movement. But every little bit helps.

 

The shims between frame and top of the support cross member. Note the 9th picture down in the following thread. You can clearly see the multiple 1/4" thick spacers that the factory used.

Does My 67 Cj5 Frame Have Any Modifications?

 

Yep. There it is plane as day. And it obviously isn't the brake/clutch peddle shaft that is supported between the transmission and frame... it's the other clutch linkage shaft, right? We'll have to take a look tomorrow at Joe's garage.

Thanks for showing us this.

My original didn't have these shims, but it looks like I will need them on the MDJ tub.

 

Today Joe worked on adding an arm to the windshield hinge, and I worked on adding the transmission/transfer case support cross member shims which were suggested by 45es. We got 2" x 3/8" x 36" bar stock at Home Depot, cut 4 pieces at 4", alligned and drilled two 7/16" holes through the shim stack, primed and painted them, put them on the Jeep, removed the body lift shims, and... success!! No more rubbing at the drum or t/c. And, we got a bonus... the cluch linkage shaft between the frame and transmission was made level (!) by this change. It turns out that without these shims, the linkage shaft had an upwards slope.



Sorry for the lack of contrast of the black shims on a black frame... but they are immediately aft (right in picture) of the peddle shaft (grey). I used two 3/8 shims which you might detect in profile against the grey shaft.

I note my cross member attachment is close to the peddle shaft. Mine is a 4cyl. In the photo which 45es called to our attention, the cross member is further aft.

'Nice call 45es. Thanks again!

We checked the under-hood and fender clearance of the Summit aftermarket heater in the engine compartment... it looks like it was made for it. Whew.

Home depot didn't have 1-1/8 x 3/4 bar stock to add to our windshield hinge to make an arm, so we stacked three pieces of 1x1/4 bar stock, pinned it and then welded it together to get close. We ran out of time with still a lot of grinding ahead of us.

It would help us a lot if anyone knows the factory correct angle that windshield hinge arm has with the hinge plate. I'm guessing the plate is level when installed, and the arm has the same angle as the windshield should have. We'll grind the arm base at that angle, screw it to the hinge base, then weld it on 4 sides.

Thanks in advance.

 

Today as a first pass I took our rough fabricated windshield hinge arm to TechShop (Pittsburgh) and used their vertical end mill to get me to our target dimensions. I milled it to 0.700 x 1.112 but didn't have a chamber tool. The socket for it in the windshield frame measured 1.25 x 0.75 with rounded corners. My square corners didn't fit.

I also made the base 5 degrees where it meets the hinge... If it turns out to be 3 degrees or 6 degrees, we can grind it much more easily now to get where we need to be.

I read on the BestTop site that to set the correct windshield angle, I will need to measure 69.5" from the inside edge of the windshield frame top (6" over from the outside face) to the inside edge of the back (beside the tailgate, 6" from the outside face). A different internet reference said it should be 69.125". Three other sites said 90 degrees.

Will try to make it work again on Monday.

 

Are both your left and right windshield hinges missing the post? If not could you measure the angle from the opposite hinge? Regardless I would think you would want to slide your new post into the windshield frame then bolt on the hinge base and then at least tack weld the hinge together, then remove and finish welding. As for the four bolt holes in the hinge post I only ever recall there being two bolts from the front of the windshield from into the post - the holes in the post being threaded.

 

Thanks, Mike. Nope, both posts missing. You described the same approach Joe came up with (...great minds, etc...). But we have to get that angle right. I'm sitting here wondering if the original windshield's frame bottom might be at an angle to it's upright side.. and I'd just need to measure that (duh)! My Jeep currently lives at Joe's; I only get to visit 3 days a week, Mon/Wed/Fri (my wife calls them "THE Jeep days"), so I can't take a close look until tomorrow, Monday.