1970 cj5 renegade I restoration/rebuild

I want to sincerely thank the good people of this forum for all of the information they have posted over the years. Without the info in this forum, I would have no idea how to deal with an early cj5.

Here is the story:
I bought a 1970 cj5 plow jeep rather impulsively. I saw the craigslist add on Sunday night and I bought it on Monday morning. I thought rebuilding it would be pretty much like the the rebuild of a 1980 cj5 back when I was in my 20s... Then I started trying to look for parts and identify what I had. I was lost until I found this forum.

I had intended to use it as a plow jeep and around town fun time beater. But after reading some posts here about the halmarks of a cj5 renegade 1 was surprised to discover I had a ren 1 on my hands. This has changed my plans for rebuilding it. I am going to try to retain as much of the look of the original and at the same time make sure it is reliable enough to take on some moderate off road trips.

It will be used for short trips around town and to work when I am in the mood and very occasional off roading.


Do you like rust?
Check out the image gallery below for before shots and a little bit of the teardown:
http://imgur.com/a/5KhSh#0

I apologize that there are way too many redundant pictures...

Here is a list of parts ordered:
1 Fuel Tank CJ5, CJ6 1955-1970
1 Wiring Harness CJ5 1966-1971 V6 Engine (from Carl Walk's business)
1 Fuel Cap Original Style CJ Under Seat Tank
1 Windshield Frame Bottom Mounted Wipers 1970-1975 CJ5, CJ6
1 Weather Strip Windshield Glass 1949-75 CJ3A, CJ3B, CJ5, CJ6, DJ3A, M38
2 Parking Light Assembly 1970-1975 CJ5, CJ6
2 Head Light Bezel 1970-1975 CJ5, CJ6, Commando
1 Tailgate No Willys Stamp CJ Models 1945-1971
1 of: Warrior Products 901SPC Powder Coated Finish Soft Door Entry Guard for Jeep CJ5 51-83
2 of: Warrior Products 13190 1/2" Front and Rear Lift Greasable Shackle for Jeep CJ5 53-75
1 of: Omix-Ada 12302.02 Cowl Rubber Seal
2 of: Evan-Fischer EVA21872027432 Side Marker Passenger or Driver RH LH Rear Corner Lamp Park Light Parking Plastic lens Red DOT, SAE approved
1 of: Omix-Ada 12403.02 Tail Light
1 of: Daystar KJ04001BK Jeep MB/CJ Body Mounts (no bolts?, If not, you need to get hardware from your own source)
2 of: Evan-Fischer EVA24172027005 Side Marker Lens Passenger or Driver RH LH Corner lamp Park light Parking Plastic Amber
1 of: Omix-Ada 12403.01 Tail Light
1 of: Bestop 51291-01 Replacement Black Hood Latch Kit
1 of: CIPA 44650 Jeep CJ OE Style Manual Replacement Driver Side Mirror
1 of: Rugged Ridge 11601.01 Factory Style Fender Flare Set
1 of: Warrior Products 902PC Powder Coated Finish Corners without Holes for Jeep CJ5 and M38
1 of: Warrior Products Sideplates With Lip (Pair) - Black Diamond Plate 1955-1971 Jeep CJ5 # 905UPC
1 of: 1970 Jeep Renegade I CJ5 Decals & Stripes Kit – BLACK
1 of: 1951-75 Jeep CJ-5 & M38A Front Floor Pans (Pair)(make sure you have a cover for master cylinder in floor pan so I can service it).
1 Jeep CJ5, CJ6 2-1/2" Lift Kit from BDS (really nice springs with fox shocks and steering stabilizer and shock boots.)
1 Bestop® 51595-15 Black Denim Supertop® Classic Replacement Soft Top with Clear Windows- 2-pc. Full doors- 1955-1975 Jeep CJ5


I am having a shop about an hour away from me do the restoration.

I will be doing a wheel well notch to give me more room. I am 6' 4"... I will be moving the roll bar back a bit so I dont hit my head when I go over bumps.


I could use some advice:
What tire and wheel combo do you think would work best?
I have a dana 44 flanged rear axle. I will mostly be driving this on the road, but when I go off road, I want to be able to get where I want to go without getting stuck.

Any general advice is appreciated. I plan to keep the ross steering. It seemed decent enough to me on the test drive before teardown. I dont know if you need to adjust something to make it work. On my old 1980 cj5 I had to drop the pitman arm...

I will post pictures and progress as I can.

 

"What tire and wheel combo do you think would work best?"
Is like asking what to eat for breakfast. Everyone's opinion is different.

Adding "I want to be able to get where I want to go without getting stuck."
Throws another wrench in.

Do you want to do the Rubicon without getting stuck? Go down a grated fire road?


Also, having a shop preform all the work will get expensive extremely quickly, I hope you understand that.

 

Thanks for responding. I apologize for the wrenches thrown! let me try to be more clear.

I will spend 90% of the time on the road around town. Off road will be various new England trails. I don't have any in particular in mind. Four wheeling is pretty restricted around where I am on the south coast of Massachusetts.
The local 4x4 club says I should have 32+ inch tires and a 2.5+ inch lift to ride the trails they do. So I am sort of using that as a guide.

I am more worried about fit of the tires. I am leaning towards 32 inch tires which should behave well on the road and meet the mins specs for the local off road club. I have read that many of you run the 2.5 bds lift with 33 inch tires. I am not sure if I should go for the 33 inch setup or not. I think it would look better and would provide just a bit more ground clearance, but I worry it wont drive well on the road.

I was hoping to hear examples of tire setups that people know will work without rubbing the tires against the bds 2.5 leaf springs. The shackles I ordered give an extra .5 inches of lift which I am hoping wont throw off the steering.

I am leaning towards bf goodrich all terrain t/a radials.

If I put 33s on it, will I regret it? Will it wander all over the place on the road, will it rub, do I need to make other modifications? What width 33s are people using? What backspacing would I need for 33s or for 32?

I am aware of the cost. I expect to pay quite a bit (5-10,000 in labor?). But I just don't have the time or space to restore it myself. I run a business and have 4 kids and a wife that I actually like to spend time with. The last time I seriously worked on a car was 15 years ago... I am suitably ashamed - but I am going to have this shop restore it for me knowing full well I could do it myself and would probably take more care in doing it... I am aware that I will never get my money back out of this. I am not looking at restoring it as an investment or even a hobby. I just love knowing that the jeep I am driving is an old piece of classic iron with a place in history.

The renegade 1 in 1970 and the VERY rare 462 in 1969 is what started the whole modern take on jeeps. Before the Ren 1, the jeep was a farmers or hunters vehicle and the old war horse so many fell in love with. After the 462, ren1, and ren2 things really took off for jeeps popularity among the young sporty type of consumer they were looking to target. Just driving this thing is going to make me very happy. I sold my old restored 1980 cj5 when I had my first child 10 years ago. I have missed it so badly ever since. Not a cj5 goes by where I don't look at it and sigh. cj7s, and wranglers are nice (I had a 1990 wrangler), but nothing looks or drives like a short wheelbase cj5. So to me, this is worth it. The happiness I will get from just driving and maintaining it will be well worth the initial investment of money I am putting into it.

 

I have decided to get a new tub. The underside is just really far gone. Any recommendations? I am considering willys overland http://www.willysoverland.com/jeep-replacement-bodies/ anything better out there?

I am also thinking fiberglass since I am northeast. Any suggestions there?

 

For what you are doing, Aqualou (sp?) is an all aluminum tub company. Very nice from what I have read.

I have a 'glass tub and I like it but they are not for everyone. But I like them. I like the look of 33's on a CJ5. Depending on trails, some 32 to 33 pizza cutters would do well. I'd check the gearing and see if 33's keep you in the RPM range you want to be in for that jeep.

 

Don't worry, you're amoung friends who know the whole significance of a Ren I.
It's a good thing you don't ever expect to get monetary return aswell. Every once and a while someone thinks a 4x4 is a monetary investment and as you know that is simply not the case.

I also understand the reasoning behind a shop doing it. I had my tcase rebuilt by a shop knowing full well I could have done it myself, because I didn't have time then.

That still doesn't really answer the trail question, but I think we can work with that.

Personally, my favorite tire I have run was the BFG A/T. I had a set of those on my Pathfinder for about seven years, with five or so of those years having "good" wheelin' tread. I can't speak for how they wear on a Jeep, but I wouldn't hesitate to try them on mine if I had the dough.

For a lot of city driving, the Yokohama Geolanders have been great to me. Mine have about 4k~ on them and still haven't started to break in. But Geolanders tend to tear up on rocks.

As far as 33's are concerned, their shouldn't be any wandering, and no, you won't regret it.

Geoffery's thread on 33's on a an ECJ5 should answer some of questions you have regarding size.

http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?103384-Pics-of-your-jeep-with-33-s-or-31-s

Wiring wise, I would have chosen a hot rod type harness with a block over the stock harness, since you're rewiring the whole Jeep.


Also, the repro tubs are not very correct, but they will work. Just remember if you do to fiberglass you have to make sure everything is properly grounded.

MDJuan has been working to improve their tubs, but the supply line probably hasn't caught up yet.

Maybe I'm just too sentimental, but it always saddens me when tubs have to get tossed.

 

After looking around and careful consideration, I am going to pay to have the body work done. It will be extensive. But it will keep the soul of the jeep. Aftermarket tubs are rough. I had a 4wd tub that drove me nuts with finding ground...
I thought there were better metal options out there. I was wrong.

i will reconsider wiring harness after some Internet searching.
thanks for the response. The tire thread link was just what I was looking for. I tried searching but so many threads mention tires and wheels I got lost.

 

You're welcome. Don't want to tell you want to do here. Advice I'm giving is just based on what I've heard.

The wiring suggestion is my personal opinion. I have the stock wiring harness. The inline fuses get really frustrating at times. If I had the $$$, I would get a harness with a fuse block because its so convenient to work with.

 

Well said- a '70 Renegade 1 is one of the few special Jeeps- trying to save as much as possible is the way I would do it as well.
As far as wheels and tires- if it were mine I would run original Kelsey Hayes Renegade wheels and a set of 33x 10.50 BFGs with the BDS lift it will be perfect.
Have you considered putting a 1970 225 engine in it?

 

I have thought about going back to the dauntless, I love how they sound, but the engine I have now seems solid. What I am hoping to do is pick up an old engine at some point and see if I can rebuild it myself at a later date (retirement?). I will look for a pair of the original wheels. Right now it has those white spoke wheels so many jeeps had in the 70s.

 

I found a set of ren1 15x8 wheels. I am looking around the forums to see if I need backspacers with 33x10.5 bfg at tires. If anyone knows off the top of their head, please take a moment to let me know.

 

These are the wheels I found!

 

Backspacing on REN I wheels is 3.875".

Info courtesy of oldtime.

http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?69870-Rim-Size

 

Here is a link to a short video of a walkaround after we got the tub off. As you can see, the damage is pretty bad. I have until Monday to decide if I want to go through with the body work or get a tub replacement.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151564518278936&l=3522786353958274408 Click the HD button in lower right for higher rez video.

 

Maybe get a new tub and splice some of the good pieces onto it? Or just get a new tub and call it done.

 

Despite reading the linked thread and searching for a few hours I am still unsure of what size tire I can put on the original 15x8 rims with 2.5 bds and .5 shackle lift. I want to avoid putting extra spacers behind the wheels. Can I be safe with 33x10.5 bfg ats on the 15x8 ren1 wheels and lift?

 

Reading that thread and others I searched, It seems that you should be fine running those. You may need to adjust the bump stops. Some needed spacers, but they will fit.

 

I think I may want to upgrade to 11 inch brakes. I am concerned that these will be too tight a fit with the original ren1 wheels. I am going to hold of on buying the wheels.

 

You will be fine with 33x10.50s on the Kelsey Hayes rims-and they will look awesome. The only thing you will have trouble with is at full lock the tires will rub on the springs. 11" drums will fit under the kelsey hayes wheels but not the finned style drums.
After watching the video of the tear down I think it would be best to go for a new tub- but you should splice in the JEEP logos into the new metal and use the original dash and anything else that is salvageable. If you need parts let me know I have a few things you might need right down the road.

 

Thanks for the tire and wheel advice.

The body guy says that he can do the repair. He has restored old cars before... But I am concerned. He has still not started the body work. I can order a tub and be done with it... Crap. I would be happy to hear other opinions on tub repair or replace.